Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How of should you change the oil in a projector?

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Posted by Scott McGuire (Member # 4508) on 12-30-2007, 11:26 PM:

I was just reading the list of things for a projectionist to remember and saw this there as part of the list. How often should the oil in a projector be changed. We have Simplex XL's at out theatre.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-31-2007, 12:47 AM:

On the older black wrinkle case XL's, you take an allen wrench to the front of the bottom of the fill glass do the drain in removing the drain allen screw.

For the newer grey cased ones that has a spigot on the lower left hand corner of the case, take a paper cup, and wedge that cup under the spigot whil turning the spigot screw to the RIGHT, (being a left hand threat to tighten) and the oil will drain into that cup, while spreading a rag over the motor's flywheel to catch any overspillage so the belt won't get saturated with the oil drainage..

Then refill with the proper oil to the set line on the glass tube for the old ones, or to the top of the sight class inside of the case of the newer ones.

(and per chance you're at a drive-in. there is an allen screw mounted in the back of the case to do the drains on both models..)

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-31-2007, 11:45 AM:

Simplex recommends annual oil changes.
It's most important that you have enough oil and that the pump is working. I look at the back window when starting the projector the first time of the day (I usually warm up the machines for a few minutes before threading) and confirm that oil is spraying on the plastic/glass and dripping down: that says the pump is pumping and has oil to pump.
When checking a machine more closely, I rack the framing down and look at the oil tube from the funnel - it ends just above the intermittent's intermediate drive gears and is hidden behind the flywheel when the framer is centred. With the projector running, you have to have oil dripping/dribbling/running through or around that tube and dropping down into the intermittent gears.
This is the Simplex® Spray-O-Matic® oiling system: oil gets pumped up and dribbled onto the spinning governor (or a paddle thing on models with no safety shutter) where it gets thrown around all over. Most of the oil seems to end up on the back window but some gets into the various bearings, gears and into the compensator. Some drops land in or on the funnel, through/over the tube attached and finally into those intermittent gears which drive the intermittent but also work as a gear pump and force oil into the intermittent housing.
If it works right, everything is oiled nicely and the intermittent eventually fills up and drains excess back down to the oil pool the pump draws from. And none leaks out past the intermittent or eccentric sleeve and all over the works on the operating side... ha ha ha!
It's easy enough to screw it up when working on an XL, however. The dribbling tube has to drop oil into the whirling governor/paddle at just the right spot. You can accidentally bend the tube the wrong way (usually this happens should you foolishly try to remove and reinstall the pump) so the flying drops of oil all miss the funnel and the intermittent gets oil starved. It will get enough stray drops to no seize up in a hurry, but the life is shortened. Make sure there are at least a few drops a second falling into the gears.

Posted by Scott McGuire (Member # 4508) on 01-01-2008, 01:38 AM:

So the oil should be changed once a year. It would be nice if we were told to do that. Is there any huge repurcution for not changing the oil once a year?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-01-2008, 03:21 AM:

If Simplex oil was used in the machine, as with any oils that remain in any crankcase, you build up sludge and varnish is coated throughout the entire geartrain and on any moving parts.

I've ran across XL's with varnished transmissions to where I've ran DEXTRON tranny fluid in the thing for a few months to cut off the varnish residue and make them run tons smoother.

Simplex oil, as quoted before on another page, contains 10% varnish, thus if using that oil, keep it changed frequently.

A good oil is 10w non-detergent for these units ..

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-01-2008, 08:15 AM:

Regardless of what's on another page, Simplex oil sold currently is just C3 compressor oil and contains no (zero) "varnish". Ancient stock would be a different product, but I don't think anyone would supply 10% varnish...?
I didn't look at a new "blue binder" Simplex manual, but I expect the oil change interval is there. The ancient XL manual I checked has it listed under "maintenance".

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-01-2008, 10:00 AM:

I have a an XL here at home and I change the oil every two years, but of course that's because the projector is not in use 365 days a year like at a theater. My oil pump has a little filter-screen on the input tube that I clean out using kerosene and compressed air. I too was told by a tech at Western Theatrical Supply here in SF some years ago that Simplex oil was nothing more than re-packaged type C3 compressor lubricant.
My XL came from a screening room and can run forward & reverse, so it has some modifications done to the oil pump to allow it to pump in both directions.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-01-2008, 03:23 PM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
Simplex recommends annual oil changes.

And Strong likes to sell parts too! Ha you guys are kiddin.... right... have you ever sent in an oil sample to be analyzed from just one year of running in an X-L or Century... ? that 3 to 4 ounces of oil on the average turns so acetic and gets so full of metal and phenolic particles that its more like a cutting compound than oil. Do yourself a favor... get a sample done up by any of the major testing places that test automotive oil... it only costs 15 bucks and the sample kits are free for the asking from most of the places. Ever wonder why the glass gear cover on an X-L eventually turns black??? As I have been doing for some years after having this done you will also be changing your oil more like every 60 to 90 days!!

Don't forget that one of the major projector manufacturers also says you only need 400cfm of exhaust for their lamphouses too... What a joke!

Mark

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-01-2008, 05:50 PM:

I change oil probably to often given that we don't run anywhere near the run-time of commercial theatres, and I am probably way over doing it, but the problem is, I am still using "ancient" Simplex Oil in quart cans (circa 1980). I assume I could varnish my kitchen cabinets with this stuff, right?

So Monte, I am very interested in your cleaning process with the Dextrol -- how do you do that? Do you drain the oil and fill with the Dextrol and run the machine with it? For how long? And after that, I'll start using the synthetic compressor oil that Mark likes. LaVezzi oil is to thick for XLs, correct? In any event, I;d really like to give everything a good Detrol "wash" first. Monte, what's your procedure?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-01-2008, 05:51 PM:

quote:
400cfm of exhaust for their lamphouses too... What a joke!

yep, know that one and some owners wonder why the anode ends get all black and burnt on the bulbs, esp with 3k bulbs .. TURN up the Exhaust..!

Hi Frank - I have two, PR-1050 units that every time I changed oil in it, nore more than a week later, would turn very dark (like a car with bad rings or weak, or dried up valve seals..). I would pull the back cover off and wipe as much crud as possible from the surfaces of the inside, but still oil came out dark after a couple of weeks from an oil change.

I figured that this black was coming from well deep inside that I couldn't reach with wiping, thus, knowing that tranny fluid had some lubrication compounds, yet also have some cleaning compounds as well

First, I pulled out the oil feed filter screen, took it outside and shot it down with carb cleaner to get all of the junk that was built up inside and shot the cleaner into the brass tube to clean that out from all of the junk. Took apart the pump itself and did the same carb cleaning procedures outside.

After putting it all back together, I traded the oil change for a 'tranny fluid' change.

I initally let the fluid run through the machine during operation, and still was changing that fluid out like the oil changes due to the quick darkness of the fluid. But, eventually, I noticed that the fluid was staying cleaner longer - to where I wouldn't be changing that fluid out til every other month, but still used the Dextron ATF in it.

Finally, after 6 months of the ATF usage, the fluid stayed red much, much longer. I then finally switched back to the projector oil and that oil right as I speak, and has been in the case for over 7 months, has stayed clean.

Plus, with all of this, the machine runs SO much quieter and has one of the longest coastdowns that I've seen an XL have - from when motor turns off, takes a good 45 sec til machine stops. One of the most quietest XL heads that I've ever heard..

..oh, and it did make the plexiglass in the back door clean..

Now, I'm working on the other 1050 with tranny fluid in it -and that fluid is staying red a lot longer..an that's coming up for a change back to projector oil - the compressor oil as mentioned by Mark, not the default STRONG/Century stuff that cost well over 10 buck per pint can.

(Doing this trick of dumping two quarts of tranny fluid in the crankcase right before an oil change with the motor idling for a good 10 to 15 minutes, really loosens up junk from clogged up pump filter screens, gallyways, sticky lifters and such, has been known for quite the long time...even shooting a quart of kerosene in the oil before change does the same trick ..so, I figured "why not with these machines?")

-Monte

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 01-01-2008, 06:08 PM:

Why spend $15. to check $.35 worth of oil? Just change it.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-01-2008, 07:24 PM:

What is Century oil? Is there a readily available substitute that is equivalent to "Genuine Century Oil"?

As for Simplexes, I change the oil in PR-1014s 2-3x per year. I don't think that twice per year is excessive, either, since the oil always comes out slightly dark. Three times might be more than necessary, but oil is cheap and gears are expensive. This is for a platter house that runs a full schedule every day.

This is probably also a good thread in which to note that the geneva-movement 16mm Eiki machines (EX-6120 and 9120) use Dextron II transmission fluid as the recommeded oil.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 01-01-2008, 09:18 PM:

Dexron is undoubtedly far superior to the high priced stuff peddled by the manufacturers. It is an extreme pressure high temp resistant viscosity 10 gear oil. I've been running it in our XLs for a couple years. No film coast down is about 6 seconds longer than with the Simplex oil. Using Amzoil
Dexron III synthetic.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-01-2008, 10:20 PM:

(..and I run AMSOIL 5w30 in my three cars...and the truck is due for a fluid change and is considering using the AMSOIL Universal Tranny Fluid ... not to drift off topic here.)

Good to hear that I'm not the only one using tranny fluid in Simplexes...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-02-2008, 04:11 PM:

The best "Century oil" is the LaVezzi HPO synthetic oil. It's available in several different size continaers and is not that expensive..... This is one oil that can actually stay in an intermittent that does not become acedic over a short time. If you incluse a particle magnet in the bottom of the movement then you could probably go a year without a change. This oil is too heavy an ISO weight for Simplex use...

Mark

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 01-02-2008, 04:31 PM:

On my 40 + year old Simplexes I change them twice a year not onces! On my Century's I clean all the grease off and put new on twice a year. The fact you oil the oil areas daily on the Century's means the oil is changed a lot by the nature of running not even sure how you would remove the oil from the three places you oil it!