Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Bausch Lomb and Isco 35mm anamorphic scope projector lens

This is topic Bausch Lomb and Isco 35mm anamorphic scope projector lens in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 02-06-2008, 01:10 AM:

What is you opinion of the Bausch Lomb anamorphic scope projector lens for 35mm projectors in general? How 'bout the Isco s? Are they good enough for film grading? Thanks-Steve

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-06-2008, 06:09 AM:

Anything B&L, by now, has degraded until it is either brown or green. While "cutting edge" at the time, that was 50+ years ago.

Stay with an ISCO or Schneider lens which is more typical of what you will find in first run cinemas. Modern design and no pine sap. Louis

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-06-2008, 06:54 AM:

While ISCO and Schneider "should" be better than B&L, I would definitely test several examples of each. You might get lucky. Some of the old lenses are actually very good, although they seem to be outnumbered (now) by bad examples and ones with deteriorated glue.

I know that everyone here hates Super Snaplites (me, included, as a general rule), but I have one pair that is excellent.

edit: grammar

[ 02-06-2008, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: Scott Norwood ]

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-06-2008, 07:56 AM:

I know they are old but there are still plenty of B&L attachment in use that look fine.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-06-2008, 08:00 AM:

I agree... I know of at least several that are sharp as a a tack!! The contrast is not as nice as an ISCO but there are a few of these old lenses that are still amazing... If you can hand select a nice one form batch of a hundred you'd probably do ok but otherwise stick with a new ISCO... preferably da blew ones.... [Big Grin]

.

Mark

Mark

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-06-2008, 11:15 AM:

We have been using two of those mutha B&H anamorphics -- the big ones that I was told at the time we bought them that they were desigined for CinemaScope 55. I later found that was probably seller's hype, although they could have been used for that purpose if there were actually any theatres that ever played a CinemaScope 55 print.

The lens elements are flawless and there is no browning of the glue like I've seen in lots of the old lenses. It seems we got a good pair. Because of the very large elements of these B&Hs, the 35mm image sits in the center of a very large opening (if you are using the larger diameter prime lens) and I must say, the screen image is very sharp indeed -- when you focus, you can easily "feel" the "in focus" point -- no racking back and forth like I've had to do with some other anamorphics -- the focus just jumps out at you. Blacks are still very good so contrast isn't terribly degraded.

As with most things technical, with a good eye you probably would be able to see a difference with a newer lens if you could do an A/B test, but your audience isn't doing A/B tests and standing alone these particular B&Hs hold their own on the screen and need no apology. With a little luck and lots of B&Hs to look thru, you might find one that will look just fine on your screen until you can get a deal on an ISCO.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-06-2008, 08:12 PM:

Don't laugh but the sharpest anamorphic I've ever personally seen and run RP-40 thorugh is a Panavision Prismatic Ultra Panatar adaptor. Amazing sharpness but you loose about 40% of the light going through!

Mark

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-07-2008, 01:26 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
We have been using two of those mutha B&H anamorphics -- the big ones that I was told at the time we bought them that they were desigined for CinemaScope 55.

Frank, those are probably the 4" dia. attachments made for drive-ins - they're so large they require additional mechanical support. The wider opening allowed for faster backup lenses, in the ridiculously long focal lengths many drive-ins required. It's a ton of glass.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-07-2008, 03:15 AM:

Tons of glass; mostly just for show; only the center par in use. Louis

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-08-2008, 03:39 AM:

Our XL has an attachement that screws in above the lens -- a rod sticks out and an adaptor ring which attaches to the front of the anamorphic rides on the rod to hold it up. Unfortunately we were only able to find one of these adaptors. The other projector has a high tech solution to the missing rod adapter -- a bungy cord is attached to the upper magazine and to the adaptor ring to take the weight of the front of the lens.

I've got two of the Panavision Panatar (adjustable) prism anamorphics but have never tried them out. I don't have the adaptors to hold them to the front of the projector. And you need that adaptor cause they are humungous. But I really should give them a try -- the manual claims they don't loose ANY light....my face laughs.

Posted by Gilles Elbhar (Member # 3719) on 02-08-2008, 04:30 AM:

Isco is better than Schneider. With Schneider the lentil, inside lens, are moving.
With no reason, picture become blur on screen...

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-08-2008, 10:23 AM:

Regarding CinemaScope 55, 20th Century Fox made only two films using this process in the fifties. It was CAROUSEL and THE KING & I and neither of them were publicly shown in that large format. CAROUSEL was only shown in 35mm as well as THE KING & I but the Yul Brynner film was later shown in 70mm at the Hollywood Bowl and a few other venues

-Claude

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-08-2008, 03:02 PM:

quote:
Don't laugh but the sharpest anamorphic I've ever personally seen and run RP-40 thorugh is a Panavision Prismatic Ultra Panatar adaptor. Amazing sharpness but you loose about 40% of the light going through!

The best anamorphics I have seen to this day are the old pink HiLux prismatics. Tack-sharp picture, very little color fringing (no more than most large Iscos), and no 'basketballing' of the image (lines remain straight across the screen from top to bottom).

Only cons are the light loss issue and that they won't work for short (under 50') throws.

-Aaron

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-08-2008, 03:25 PM:

You're right Aaron, They lack much of the chromatic abberation(color fringing) that you see in todays typical Schneider and ISCO anamorphic glass. As thick as those prisms are you'd think there'd be alot of that and alot of refraction... somehow they did it right though. There are today several anamorphic attachments available for home video projectors that use the large prisms. The Delrama lenses used for Technirama were also almost completely void of any chromatic abberation... one of the main reasons that I think Technirama looked so good.

Mark

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 02-08-2008, 04:04 PM:

One of the best scope pictures I ever saw also came from a pair of Ultra Panatar C/S adaptors.

Frank, I wouldn't waste your time testing Super Panatar lenses. Try a set of Ultra's if you can find a set. Ultra's screwed to the back-up and do not need an projector adapter. May need a thread adaptor depending what back-up lens you have. They are not as heavy as your B&L drive-in lenses.

As any non-adjustable C/S lens you MUST have the correct front glass to match your throw distance or the lense will not focus properly. Usually this was stamped on the glass such as "60-80" or so. After a couple of hundred feet they were not necessory other then keeping dust out.

The new lenses are indeed better but some of the old standbys do a fine job.
Dick

Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 02-09-2008, 04:04 AM:

Well part of MY problem is I will have a short throw, maybe 20-25 feet onto a maybe 14 by 7 ft screen. Does this factor in heavily when picking a brand?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-09-2008, 05:46 AM:

The old ones won't do it. Stick with something recent and be sure the throw you have is "in range." Won't be cheap, though.

Since you are using these for timing, the discolored ones are not an option. Louis