Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Soundhead added to silent projector

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Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 02-06-2008, 11:02 AM:

Hello Community,

I have embarked myself on a task I have never done before, and I´d like to hear your opinions as well as your advice.

I am currently restoring an Ernemann III, and as you know, being from the late ´20s, that is a silent projector.

Projectors with sound always have a sprocket located right after the soundhead, for reading stability purposes. [Confused]

My questions are:

Is it possible to do without that sprocket?

Obvious as it may sound, there is no easy way to "insert" a new sprocket on to the projector.

Right now I´m looking into going from the soundhead straight down to the take up reel. This sounds shaky to say the least.

Has anyone done something like this before? If so, what are your recommendations?

Very thankfull (as always)
Andrés

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-06-2008, 12:26 PM:

In the US, we would call that last sprocket on a sound projector, the ‘hold-back’ sprocket. As a practical matter, I would think you must have that sprocket, or something that takes it’s function, to read the analog sound. You could do without it if the sound system is digital, though.

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 02-06-2008, 12:35 PM:

Thank you John. [thumbsup]

I wasn´t familiar with the term "hold-back sprocket".

Do you believe I can get away with having a sprocket like the one on Dolby´s CAT 700 readers? A non-driven one? [uhoh]

Andrés

Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 02-06-2008, 12:49 PM:

Get yourself a Western Electric 209 or 211 reproducer. It had no sprocket; coming off the intermittent sprocket into a film chute thence to a kinetic scanner and back into the projector using the holdback sprocket.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 02-06-2008, 02:07 PM:

Most European projectors of the period had the soundhead in a box to the rear of the existing projector with suitable guide rollers to feed film to the "sound box" and return the film to the projector lower sprocket. Bob Kochs' WE soundhead suggestion allowed this same type of transport but was designed to sit below the projector. Simplex SI projectors had the same concept. I have seen some of these older projectors with the sound box to the rear in a few cinemas in Avenida de Florida and in Mar del Plata [Smile]

Posted by Christos Mitsakis (Member # 143) on 02-06-2008, 02:48 PM:

Andres,
This is an Ernemann II head, prety much like your III.

You can use any older european soundhead (Philips, actually any Klangfilm, siemens, Bauer) with similar design to this Zeiss Ikon for ernemann:

The majority of them can be upgraded with a stereo cell and laser retrofit.

Christos.

Posted by Dave Ritchie (Member # 4030) on 02-06-2008, 03:07 PM:

My Ernemann II has a front mounted soundhead,

the film go's from the top of the bottom drive sprocket round the head then back onto the same sprocket

Works well- I'm going to upgrade it soon to stereo cell and laser

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 02-06-2008, 07:41 PM:

That is an Australian soundhead.....looks like the same "whiffle tree" dancer arms and sound drum set up a used by Eprad soundhead.

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 02-07-2008, 07:58 AM:

Hello again community and thanks for your pointers!

Bob K: I have been surfing the net trying to find information on the WE soundheads you recomended with no luck. Do you know where I can find any literature on it? [Embarrassed]

Richard F.: I´ll shoot you a personal message so we can pick up the conversation about your experience in Argentina! [beer]

Christos: Thanks for taking the trouble of uploading the pics. They are very helpful. Is that EII yours? [thumbsup]

Dave: Thanks a lot! As usual! [Big Grin]

Andrés

Posted by Christos Mitsakis (Member # 143) on 02-07-2008, 08:21 AM:

No there are just rip-offs from German e-bay. My introduction to projection has been through an EII or EIII (I didn't care about models back then). I remember having a speed frame gauge like the one in Dave's photo and a classic klangfilm sound head.
C.

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 02-09-2008, 03:18 PM:

Hey, guys!
New doubt on same subject. Considering the fixed 21 frame offset between aperture and sound scanning, is that distance long enough for me to place the soundhead right underneath the projector? As opposed to "in" it? [Confused]

Thanks a bunch!

Posted by Dave Ritchie (Member # 4030) on 02-20-2008, 09:25 PM:

Andres

It should be sweet mounting a soundhead under the EIII Here is a pic of a Walturdaw 5 head on a westrex standard soundhead,

You might have to make a spacer between them but it shouldn't be to hard to work out.

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 02-21-2008, 08:16 AM:

Hey, Dave!
Thanks! Your pic has proven that what I want is doable! Excellent. Do you happen to know if the soundhead in the pic has a driven sprocket inside of it? If so, I assume that it must be coupled via belt to the projector transmission. I am right?

Take care,
Andrés