Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Bar code cue readers...

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Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 02-25-2008, 04:55 PM:

I am taking over a location previously owned by UA Theatres. The booth is equipped with bar code readers to detect film cues. However, there are no bar code stickers to be found in the booth. I would like to know where these bar code cues can be purchased. Any help would be appreciated.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-25-2008, 04:58 PM:

I believe Kelmar still sells them. If not let me know and maybe I can do a high resolution scan of the different sheets that you could print out and trim to size on label stock paper.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-25-2008, 08:29 PM:

If you know the symbology/format of the bar code you could probably get any old computer program that can create and print bar codes then run them off with your laser printer using any old kind of Avery label stock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcode#Linear_barcodes

Aren't they just a simple two digit code? I don't remember them well.

It's been a long time since I've seen them and the only times I've had to deal with them is when I had to peel the damn things off a print.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-25-2008, 10:06 PM:

Sam Chavez might be able to shed some light(pun intended) on this... Far as I know Kelmar no longer offers them. It was a UA thing and there were problems of some osrt that sam may be able to elaborate on.

Mark

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-25-2008, 11:29 PM:

Not me, I worked on the Dolby one. The bar codes were entirely different.

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 02-27-2008, 11:56 PM:

I have not been able to locate these bar codes. HELP!!

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 02-28-2008, 01:45 AM:

I remember Symbol Technologies was the group who designed that barcode set up for UA. The UA Plaza in Dallas had this.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 02-28-2008, 06:42 AM:

The print of "I Am Legend" that we had this week had those bar codes stuck in the middle of the image on the emulsion side of the film. They were impossible to remove as there was no splicing tape BETWEEN them and the film.

KEN [Mad]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-28-2008, 10:49 AM:

There were 2 different kinds of UA barcode systems. One was a simple 4 cue system, the other had tons.

I do have a book here. I don't have a super high resolution scanner on-site, but let me try scanning in a sheet and have someone on the forums with one of those systems print it out and wave it in front of their reader and see if the resolution is good enough that the scan could be printed onto label stock.

PS - PLEASE listen to Ken!!! Putting the barcode sticker directly onto the film is terribly unprofessional and permanently damages the film. Lay a piece of splicing tape down and THEN put the sticker on top of that.

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 02-29-2008, 06:42 PM:

Brad,
Thanks for the help. Let me know ASAP if you are successful.

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 03-01-2008, 01:47 PM:

Component Engineering has a conversion board for the Barcode automation so that you can use a traditional proximity cue detector instead of the barcode reader.

I believe that Regal was converting a lot of their theaters to FM-35 failsafes using these.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2008, 08:59 PM:

Ok, I have done a test scan and the manual will be available on the front page tonight. Someone with one of these systems please print it out (a piece of regular paper is fine), cut out a single cue and then wave it in front of the scanner and please verify it is high enough resolution to work. It looks plenty high quality on my end.

Note these cues are for the version A system and stand-alone reader, not the later "B" version. There are only 4 cues, of which UA only ever used 3 of them. However the "O22" cue should work on the B system just like a #19 shutdown cue if memory serves.

If this works, I will scan in the "B" version book.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-02-2008, 10:06 PM:

I did some reading up. As far as I can tell, this barcode is just a regular old "2 of 5 Interleave" with no checksum.

Any old barcode generating/printing program can whip these codes up with little problem.

I used "KBarcode" for Linux (freeware) to generate these barcodes:

Note the human-readable text in the original has been altered. A normal 2/5 barcode can not have letters in it. Only numbers. The "O", "C", "I" and "X" presumably stand for "Outboard", "Inboard", "Center" and "Cross". If you can remember the numbers, you don't need the letters, really.

I don't have a barcode reader to check my work. If somebody who has one of these systems could verify that they also work, please, I would appreciate it.

If it does work we have verified that barcodes for these automations can be made by virtually anybody with a computer and a laser printer that can handle Avery stick-on labels.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-02-2008, 10:44 PM:

It was just verified at a UA that the barcode scans on the front page for version A do in fact work properly.

I am in the process of scanning my book in, but am missing a few cue sheets. The missing ones are being mailed to me and I should have the pdf file for version B online by this weekend.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-02-2008, 11:02 PM:

The barcodes currently listed on the front page are very different than the ones we used at Greenwood Plaza 12. We had tons upon tons of different functions, and the cues were labeled as 01, 02, etc all the way up to 35 I think. The ones on the front page do not have these numbers. Good luck guessing at what they do!

Also, wouldn't it be cheaper to print them on normal paper, lay the paper on the film and then put a single-sided splice over it? It should still read, and when the splicing tape is peeled off, the paper goes with it.

Has UA switched all of their theaters over to some sort of non-barcode system?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-02-2008, 11:42 PM:

It may read. I don't know for sure. Experimentation would be needed.

Shiny surfaces are usually bad for barcode scanning. It makes it hard for the scanner to tell if the area is light or dark. Splicing tape may be okay because it's optically clear.

It's also important to maintain enough white space before and after the bars so that the scanner knows when to start and stop reading. The "guard bars" before and after the digits tell the scanner when the data starts and ends but the white space tells the scanner how to separate the data from the chaff.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-02-2008, 11:55 PM:

I have printed UPS labels on regular paper and then taped over them on the box and they scanned just fine.

By the way, here is a list of barcode functions that are compatible with the UA barcode system.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-03-2008, 01:04 AM:

FYI - That list of commands isn't the latest version of the UA Barcode. UA changed some things down the line to make room for SR/digital sound, etc. I will include a list in the pdf file of it's final incarnation. (Yes this is the version with the cues starting at 01 and ending at 35.)

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-03-2008, 01:39 AM:

Yeah, my list includes SR and digital.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-03-2008, 02:14 AM:

#05 and 06 are not show end cues on the final incarnation.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-03-2008, 02:25 AM:

I blame Gary Stanley.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-03-2008, 02:28 AM:

Makes sense. [Razz]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-03-2008, 11:01 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I have printed UPS labels on regular paper and then taped over them on the box and they scanned just fine.

Laser scanners do a better job of scanning difficult surfaces than many of the photo/image type scanners do. Even then, image scanners are getting better and better every day. My experience with scanning comes from many years ago when I helped test software for a guy who wrote the drivers for some scanners. Technology has undoubtedly improved since then.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-09-2009, 01:13 AM:

It has been 523 days since the last post.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-09-2009, 01:13 AM:

I brought in a print of "Public Enemies" this week. It had those barcode stickers on it, so it would appear someone's still using this system. Aside from never having seen them here before, I was terribly impressed (not!) with what it took to get them off the film. No splicing tape here! It might have been easier to cut the frame out altogether, but I didn't want to do that. Judicious use of fingernails, naptha and Filmguard was required to get everything off, and no... I'm pretty sure someone with a good eye wouldn't consider those frames "undamaged".

These stickers were about 2 perfs high, or so, and about half a frame wide. Who's bright idea was that? [fu]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-09-2009, 04:02 AM:

And that is why the following text is on the Building 101 page:

quote:
NOTE TO UNITED ARTISTS "LASER BARCODE" AUTOMATION USERS: PLEASE lay a piece of clear splicing tape over the film before you apply those non-removable bar code stickers. It is a professional courtesy to all others who will ultimately run the print you have in your hands. Although we recommend that any automation cues placed on a print should be removed before it is shipped back, if your theater does not do this or is rushed for time, at least the next theater can peel the tape (with cue on top of it) off. UA barcode stickers placed directly on the film do NOT come off otherwise.

Of course those damned "Opticue" people need to be shot too.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-09-2009, 10:19 AM:

I hate those Xetron cues! It takes like twenty of them in a row just to bring up the house lights half way.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-09-2009, 06:16 PM:

And, as I've said before, it ruins the end of the movie if you place them carelessly. I've seen a lot of movies where the hero rides off into the sunset (or whatever), the picture slowly fades to black and the music climaxes, then a few big squares flash on the screen. I'd prefer to just have the lights stay down during the credits, but if you HAVE to bring them up at least do it unobtrusively for those of us who actually want to see the entire movie. Since most booth personnel don't care about this I've just stopped going to theaters that use these (and unless I've been in the booth, I shouldn't be able to tell what type of automation anyone uses.)