Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Any info on 35mm Kinoton model PR135 would be helpful

This is topic Any info on 35mm Kinoton model PR135 would be helpful in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Brian Dooda (Member # 3941) on 02-25-2008, 09:48 PM:

My theater has been offered a pair of 35mm Kinoton model PR135 projectors. I can't seem to find any information about this model Kinoton and would appreciate anyones experience or knowledge (when were they manufactured and for what intention, are parts outdated?). A link or a pdf. manual would be great.
-Thanks

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-25-2008, 10:04 PM:

I think that may be the Magnatech version of the FP-20... can anyone else here confirm this...

Mark

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 02-26-2008, 08:12 AM:

These are indeed Magna-Tech modified FP-20's. We are using them at the Landmark Loews Jersey. All the threading path parts, including the sound reader is identical to the FP-20. Magna-Tech modifications mostly involved allowing them to run in reverse (something I do not recommend).

The FP-20's are late 1960's thru 1970's vintage machines. Parts are readily available, but tend to be more expensive than for American made projectors. Brad Miller, our forum host, is a Kinoton dealer and can order you any part you may need.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-26-2008, 10:24 PM:

Reverse running is pretty dicey. There was a proper FP-20 reversing machine (with an extra driven sprocket between the intermittent and the soundhead) but no MagnaTech unit I've seen is based on it. The Phillips/Kinoton projector mechanicals are all excellent... the MagnaTech electronic stuff and added mechanicals are another story. As long as it works it's fine, and they are pretty reliable. If the electronics or reel torque motors or the various electric and one-way clutches/brakes give trouble, they can be a nightmare.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 02-27-2008, 05:13 AM:

Worked on 5 of the FP 20s in television with the extra driven sprocket used for dubbing, telecine transfer & TX. There was never any problem with these, even when there was a rare interlock runaway fault when the film would run almost three times the speed. [Big Grin]

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-27-2008, 09:09 AM:

I have a pair of them here running in Times Square. No problems at all.

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 02-27-2008, 11:21 AM:

I'm the tech at the Loew's Jersey, and the Magna-Tech modifications on the ones we have are fairly straightforward and I can't imagine any nightmares resulting from them unless you really needed reverse operation.

The supply and take-up shafts are driven by torque motors with electric brakes for threading. If these were to go it wouldn't be difficult to replace the motors or revert to regular friction take-ups if you didn't need reverse operation.

There is an electric clutch driving the sound drum to maintain the lower loop in reverse operation. The belt going to this clutch is removed in ours due to excess wow caused by the clutch not totally disengaging in forward operation.

Finally, for reverse operation through the gate there are pins actuated by a friction clutch that push the top of the skate out about 1/8" when running in reverse. Not much to go wrong here.

They seem to run well enough in reverse, but I don't imagine they're terribly kind to film that way (don't have any evidence, just my gut from observing them run). I wouldn't run anything I care about in reverse.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-27-2008, 04:49 PM:

Robert,

About a week ago the Loew's sent out the following message to those on their mailing list:

quote:
Hi everyone,

We are hoping to move a couple of our movie projectors around this
Saturday, February 23.

If available, please try to come around noontime.

Also feel free to pass the word along to anyone who may also be able
to help. There will be other projects lined up for our "non-heavy
lifters" too!

Thanks,
Susan
Friends of the Loew's, Inc.

What is happening there; is this to make room for the DP-70s? If so, do you know when this is likely to be completed, and does this finally mean the end for the Ashcraft arcs?

There has been some improvement in my health recently, and I was trying to find a time when I could come over this year, but they only seem to be doing a few shows before the Summer closure.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-27-2008, 04:57 PM:

quote: Bernard Tonks
There was never any problem with these, even when there was a rare interlock runaway fault when the film would run almost three times the speed.

The ultimate worst was on the RCA FR-35B when a + or - rail fuse blew on the torque motors you insantly went to full wind speed on the reel(about 3000 RPM!) often sending film sailing through the air for a long distance. When you killed the power if the split ws on backwards it would unscrew itself [Eek!]

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 02-28-2008, 08:03 AM:

quote: Stephen Furley
is this to make room for the DP-70s?

The Vitaphone projector is being moved to free up the port so that we can start work on getting at least one of the DP-70's up and running. The Kinoton FP-20's/PR135's are staying in place for the moment.

Posted by Steven H. Krams (Member # 1461) on 03-02-2008, 08:18 AM:

MAGNA-TECH PR-135 Projectors are quite similar to Phillips FP-20 Machines except for the following items:

Motor and Drive systems, Reversing Gate Runner, Control Systems, feed & takeup frictions, shafts, and electrical wiring.

The machines came in several versions including a Telecine.

There were also a few PR-135, machines with an all electronic Intermittent manufactured. I don't think any of these are still in service. This machine served as the inspiration and basis for the PR-635 and PR-636 Combination 16/35 all Electronic Hi Speed Studio interlock machine which we still manufacture on ocasion.

PR-135's were made primarily for the Studio interlock market and normally were equipped with 3 phase Turner 1200 RPM Compound Drive Motors in order to lockup to dubbers and recorders.

When MTE introduced the Bi-Phase interlock system in the 1970's many if not all the Selsyn Systems finally went away as a result.

We still stock many of the parts for this machine and if provided with a serial number can supply information on the particular machine in question as many were made to order with various individual modifications.

MTE purchased all the inventory of the North American Phillps Company when they packed it in and left Montvale New Jersey in the late 1960's. Therefore had a warehouse full of NORELCO material. They clearly put it to good use.

Some of the materials were still in stock when we acquired the commpany in the 1990's.

Nice to see so many of you still are familiar with some of the older MTE products.

Keep up the good work here on the forum! It is quite helpful!

Steven Krams
Magna-Tech Electronic Co. Inc.