This is topic No heads on the reels in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Matthew Shearer (Member # 4554) on 02-28-2008, 07:34 PM:
 
We just got the movie No Country For Old Men...yes just got it, and with no heads we're a little lost. Someone had told me earlier that there were pictures of the reel heads on this site but I am un able to find them. Any help is appreciated. -Thanks
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-28-2008, 08:35 PM:
 
It would be over on the left under reel ID, but it's not listed.
Are the tails intacted? I've had some fools rewind the heads & tails together on to the reels. Trying to save time. They could be on the inside of the reel.

Call TES 1800-99-films
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-28-2008, 10:02 PM:
 
TES will fax you a copy of the heads of the reels.
 

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Posted by Todd Shelskt (Member # 4684) on 02-28-2008, 10:13 PM:
 
I work at a sub-run theater in Connecticut and had a couple of problems with missing leaders OR leaders cut to the black instead of leaving a frame. It really aggravates me. It's such a SIMPLE THING to add or remove leaders! Thankfully, over the last few months I've gotten decent prints, expertly handled!
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-29-2008, 12:49 AM:
 
Determining reel number by reading DTS timecode on 35mm film
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-29-2008, 01:17 AM:
 
Due to being overworked in general, the ID warehouse hasn't been updated in some time. We do have most of the releases archived, but not on the server yet.

In the meantime did you receive no leaders at all??? Or did you just receive leaders without an ID frame? If the latter, just match up the printed numbers on the edges of the film printed every 10 feet or so in the SDDS audio track and you have your positive identification. Here is an example of what I mean (look at the bottom edge and you will see the numbers)......


 

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Posted by Ross Oba (Member # 3433) on 02-29-2008, 04:34 AM:
 
This is probably too late but Technicolor has ID frames on their website.

http://www.technicolor.com/Cultures/En-Us/TheatricalDistribution/CheckFrames
 

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Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 02-29-2008, 05:10 AM:
 
Determining reel number by reading DTS timecode on 35mm film:

That's pretty neat -- The bit patterns read left to right instead of R-L as we bit weenies tend to do. Thanks Daryl.
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-29-2008, 04:23 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

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In the meantime did you receive no leaders at all??? Or did you just receive leaders without an ID frame?

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They received a print with no heads or tails except for the head on R1. Their fax machine sucks- all that you could see in the pictures in the fax were basically blurry gray strips instead of clear pictures of the images to use to match.

They have called TES and are getting a replacement print today anyway, as this one is horribly scratched.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-29-2008, 07:06 PM:
 
I'm curious as to how that got past their inspection people. It must've been a direct circuit...and if so, why have they not been outed yet?
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-01-2008, 07:20 PM:
 
I get 'em occasionally from TES and the others too with no tails or heads, I believe the only check the make is a reel count, and I've received the incorrect reel count twice.

[ 03-01-2008, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Bill Enos ]
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-02-2008, 04:38 AM:
 
Unless it's changed since April of 2007 when I last talked to them about it, TES's Quality Check process (formerly known as IC, or Integrity Check) continues to look at outside (i.e. head or tail, whatever is "out") of every reel before it is shipped.

There should be a handwritten sticker on the outside of the can with the date of the inspection.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-02-2008, 10:59 AM:
 
This guy may have gotten a circuited print...he doesn't say.

FWIW I've gotten prints directly from TES that have no leaders, or they're wrapped around the hubs. Maybe just once or twice, but it has happened...I do think their practices have improved in the past three years or so.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-02-2008, 09:46 PM:
 
If you get prints from TES with no leaders, you should call them and ask what happened. What do you mean by "wrapped around the hubs?"

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 03-03-2008, 06:47 AM:
 
John,

I have received sever prints recently with both the head and tail leaders taped to the center of the reel and the feature attached on top of it. The head of the feature reel becomes VERY dirty and scratched so that it must be discarded.

Often the leaders are not for the reel that was wound on top of them. This makes building the show a bit tough but the scratches make a replacement print necessary anyway.

I think that this technique saves at least 30 or more seconds for the theater that packed it up last although it destroyed the print for all future exhibition.

KEN
 

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Posted by Kat Baggett (Member # 1154) on 03-04-2008, 02:15 AM:
 
Ok, time for an update on the problem.

We received the print via DHL, zip tied cans and all. There was a total of one head on the print still attached to the tailout reel one, the rest of the reels had neither head or tail and they were not in the cans. Called Technicolor Thursday night they informed me that they would call me and let me know when they had an ETA for a replacement. But they did fax me the heads and tails, and with the description supplied to me on the phone was able to get it put together in correct order.
During buildup the print was found to be all scratched...clear through to the base...ouch...called Technicolor back to request a new print, after being on hold for 20 min, was told that the studio was putting a hold on all requests for replacement reels and prints and it would be at least a week before I could get anything...
Such is life at a small 3 screen, thankfully most of the scratches aren't all that noticable due to being in the desert..lucky for me...
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-04-2008, 12:14 PM:
 
Is there a green dot on the shipping can label showing that it had been inspected? If there was a zip tie on the latch, then it SHOULD have been inspected. That green round sticker (with a date written on it) shows that someone opened the cans and inspected the first 20 feet of each reel.
 

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Posted by Kat Baggett (Member # 1154) on 03-05-2008, 01:06 AM:
 
Will check tomorrow and let you know, had a suck ass day today, the new projection kid on the block managed to fall down the stairs just after we got there..oh well...shipped him off to the local ER and tomorrow is another wonderful day in Tiburon.

Kat
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-05-2008, 04:04 AM:
 
Since I have very little experience with first run commercial exhibition, let me ask this: isn't in the film company's best interest to make sure the exhibitor who is going to return 90% of each ticket sale to them actually gets to put their picture up on the screen? Doesn't that give the exhibitor some powerful leverage in a case like this?

After getting a runaround from Technicolor, why not go the other route? Call Paramount and tell them you are getting no satisfaction from Technicolor and that the print you have is unacceptable. Tell them you won't play it until they get an acceptable print to you. Every day the exhibitor doesn't put that picture on the screen, that's a day where the studio gets 00% for that title. Can't the exhibitor also say, if the distrib can't get him a play-able print by such and such a date, he's going to pulling the picture entirely. If even a few theatres did or even threatened this, the studios would have to sit up and take notice and put pressure on Technicolor to do their job....at least one would think.

I just don't understand why the equation is so lop-sided. The exhibitor seems not to get any say in the deal. Has NATO or even a single chain ever made a studio sign THEIR master contract if they wanted their picture to play on their screens? Or has any exhibitor even amended or added a rider to the studio's master contract? We do live shows and that's the way contracts are finalized. The act sends a contract to us, we cross out stuff we will not agree to, add riders for stuff we want, then we send it back to them. They make notes and send it back to us until at some point both parties come to a contract they both can live with. That's negotiating and how contracts in other segments of the industry are arrived at. I don't see why exhibition doesn't engage in the same kind of hard-nose give and take rather than the NATO approach of grabbing both ankles and biting down on a towel.

How bout a clause something like, "prints have to arrive scratch-free and ready for projection, leaders in tact and attached, or the theatre has a right of refusal without it being construed as breach of contract"? The theatre would then have the choice of playing the title only if and when an acceptable print arrives, or if the distributor couldn't supply an acceptable print, the theatre could cancel the booking altogether, again without penalty.

Naturally a theatre is not going to refuse prints on a whim because it's in its best interest to play first run titles, but I think it should also have the ability to refuse a booking if the distrib can't supply a reasonably acceptable product.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-05-2008, 10:41 AM:
 
Frank,

What I'm saying goes along with your negotiation note:
The studio wouldn't allow the contract to say that the exhibitor would be given the choice to run it when the decent copy arrives. They would put in something to the effect that if an acceptable copy is furnished during the agreed upon play-dates then the exhibitor is required to show it.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-05-2008, 01:24 PM:
 
The only thing the zip tie on the latch means is that somebody put it on.
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 03-05-2008, 01:43 PM:
 
No Country was Miramax and handled by TES.

Correct me if I am wrong (prehaps Brad Miller who has visited the Technicolor facility can verify this) but as I understand it there are various "levels" of inspection depending on the what the distributor is willing to pay for and (to a certain extent) who the recipient theatre is (first run, second run, repetory etc).

It is my understanding that the level of inspection service (for that print, or release or company as the case may be) is sometimes denoted by the color of the sticker appended on the outside of the orange cans. I believe there are green, orange, yellow (and possibly some other) colored stickers.

Again as I understand it the service level varies from a full hand inspection of every frame of each reel, to the first 20 feet of each reel, to simply opening the cans and counting if there are the required number of reels.

Of course the fact that a distributor got charged by TES for an inspection doesn't mean that it actually occurred.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-05-2008, 02:58 PM:
 

quote: Frank Angel

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the exhibitor who is going to return 90% of each ticket sale

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quote: Frank Angel

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Since I have very little experience with first run commercial exhibition, let me ask this: isn't in the film company's best interest to make sure the exhibitor who is going to return 90% of each ticket sale to them actually gets to put their picture up on the screen? Doesn't that give the exhibitor some powerful leverage in a case like this?

After getting a runaround from Technicolor, why not go the other route? Call Paramount and tell them you are getting no satisfaction from Technicolor and that the print you have is unacceptable. Tell them you won't play it until they get an acceptable print to you. Every day the exhibitor doesn't put that picture on the screen, that's a day where the studio gets 00% for that title. Can't the exhibitor also say, if the distrib can't get him a play-able print by such and such a date, he's going to pulling the picture entirely. If even a few theatres did or even threatened this, the studios would have to sit up and take notice and put pressure on Technicolor to do their job....at least one would think.

I just don't understand why the equation is so lop-sided. The exhibitor seems not to get any say in the deal. Has NATO or even a single chain ever made a studio sign THEIR master contract if they wanted their picture to play on their screens? Or has any exhibitor even amended or added a rider to the studio's master contract? We do live shows and that's the way contracts are finalized. The act sends a contract to us, we cross out stuff we will not agree to, add riders for stuff we want, then we send it back to them. They make notes and send it back to us until at some point both parties come to a contract they both can live with. That's negotiating and how contracts in other segments of the industry are arrived at. I don't see why exhibition doesn't engage in the same kind of hard-nose give and take rather than the NATO approach of grabbing both ankles and biting down on a towel.

How bout a clause something like, "prints have to arrive scratch-free and ready for projection, leaders in tact and attached, or the theatre has a right of refusal without it being construed as breach of contract"? The theatre would then have the choice of playing the title only if and when an acceptable print arrives, or if the distributor couldn't supply an acceptable print, the theatre could cancel the booking altogether, again without penalty.

Naturally a theatre is not going to refuse prints on a whim because it's in its best interest to play first run titles, but I think it should also have the ability to refuse a booking if the distrib can't supply a reasonably acceptable product.

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quote: Brad Allen

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the truth is the film co's really don't seem to care at all these days. Once upon a time a "miss-out" was a huge big deal, they don't even blink an eye today. We are the bottom of the feeding chain behind video, ppv, and such.

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