Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Handling Gloves

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Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-03-2008, 04:14 PM:

I have always used the Cotton film handling gloves when building up and breaking down film. It was the way I was taught I think it protects the film it is a good practice. I realize that most aren't doing this of late but this isn't the question I have.

Can you use plan surgical gloves in handling film? I realize that you wouldn't want to use the kind with talcum powder but is there any reason not to use the ones that are not powdered? It looks to me that would have a better feel of the film with them than the cotton.

Even with that said I'm not sure I would trade in the cotton film handling gloves, tradition you know!

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-03-2008, 04:43 PM:

You could, but I'd think you would want gloves where the film could 'slip' through. Nylon (or equivlent) gloves might 'grab' the film. Your hands would sweat, too.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-03-2008, 11:34 PM:

Surgical/examination gloves wouldn't work very well at all. The ones people used to use, latex, is a bad choice both for the fact that a lot of people get allergic to it easily and (as mentioned) that it's a "sticky" substance (meaning that there's a high amount of friction). The more commonly available nitrile gloves will suffer from the same friction issue. Even if the film went through fine, you'd at least be in pain from the friction of the gloves on your fingers.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 03-04-2008, 06:25 AM:

While editing my super 8mm films, I used nylon white "mickey mouse' gloves. (They cover the fingers but don't go up to the wrist} They do not make the lint as cotton gloves do. There was no problem with feeling the film or handling it. After 70mm in the booth, this little film is like spaghetti.

KEN [Wink]

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 03-04-2008, 09:02 AM:

Once I was working in a theatre in Brazil (Rio to be exact) and the only thing I could find were those surgical gloves, so I wore them. They didn´t last long. Maybe two reels per glove. The friction of the film cuts the latex or nitrile "like butta"!

Andrés

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-05-2008, 03:24 PM:

thanks for the information I believe I will stick to the plain old white film handling gloves I have used for ... a long time! [Smile]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-05-2008, 04:04 PM:

I think glove users are in the minority nowadays, no? I have never used them. I use the alternative, simple 2-point method:

1. Wash hands before handling film (and no food in the booth).
2. Don't touch the image area.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-05-2008, 04:34 PM:

But Mike the oil in your hands returns in just a few minutes! I realize that glove users are in the minority but it was how I was trained and I have made it a requirement at any theater I have run since mid-70's. It certainly doesn't cause any problem unless the gloves don't fit well and if they don't fit some buy the size that does fit them.

Now that is just me and you are free to do it the way you want.

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 03-06-2008, 10:36 AM:

I agree with Ron on this. It goes without saying, you can do whatever you please, Mike, but I find that it is 99.99% impossible to do a splice without touching the image area. Hence: I have my guys always wear gloves. I am pretty uptight about this.

Andrés

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-06-2008, 11:37 AM:

Ron: I'll bet a dollar that when you break down film, you tear the splices and leave the tape on the print. Do I win? [Wink]

Posted by Sebastian Binz (Member # 4567) on 03-06-2008, 04:48 PM:

I've tried cotton gloves for a few prints as well, but the feeling is just different. Especially handling the splicing tape is a bit more difficult wearing gloves.
One question: How long do you wear a pair? I figured that the gloves become quite dirty after handling a relatively small number of prints.

Posted by Emma Tomiak (Member # 1862) on 03-06-2008, 05:27 PM:

I find using gloves to be espcially difficult because most come in "one size fits all", meaning that they fit most male hands and are huge on my hands.

Washing the gloves in hot water and tumble drying them not only shrinks them a bit to fit me better, but also removes most of the loose fibers that tend to get all over the film.

There's really no point in washing and reusing them after they get dirty since they come in packs of a million or so. Just chuck them out after they begin to look noticeably dirty or start falling apart.

Posted by Stu Jamieson (Member # 4626) on 03-06-2008, 06:58 PM:

The problem with gloves is that you get a reduction in tactility with them, i.e. your ability to sense things with your fingers is reduced. All PPE retards your senses so you need a damn good reason to use them. Like Mike says, how do you remove splicing tape while wearing gloves? And you would be able to detect film flaws easier and more reliably by running it through your bare fingers. I don't use gloves myself (and my employer does not require me to use them).

The way I see it, using gloves is pretty pointless. As others have alluded, the gloves will collect dirt and retransmit it elsewhere and they will shed fibres. Besides, unless your biobox is Intel-style surgery clean, the print will collect contaminants from the environment! A lot of people here seem to use Film-Guard and I'm sure that would do a much better job of keeping the print clean than gloves. Me? I just keep my hands clean.

Posted by Bill Bright (Member # 1998) on 03-06-2008, 10:45 PM:

Actually Regal's "Projection Booth Operations Manual" states that for good film building and breaking down one must use the cotton gloves. Just to make the point that some still use this method.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 03-06-2008, 11:26 PM:

In my booth at the Gaslamp 15, it's a requirement to wear cotton gloves, which I agree with. It was a method that I used at Regal Parkway Plaza 18 and personally, don't mind using cotton gloves. To me, it makes sense and it is a policy that I am making as a requirement & policy for movie builds.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-07-2008, 12:00 AM:

Stu rights, "The problem with gloves is that you get a reduction in tactility with them, i.e. your ability to sense things with your fingers is reduced."

Do you speak from experience or speculation? I handcheck film with one glove and have done so for years, though occasionally I do without. I find that cotton gloves dramatically increase the sensitivity of my hands. In part this is because there is less friction against the cotton than the skin, so it's possible to get finer control of tension on the sides (without bowing).

I generally take off the glove to remove tape, which doesn't
really slow me down at all. I also find the loose glove handy to smooth down the splicing tape before punching it, because the cotton slides on the tape more smoothly than a finger, which sometimes skips/skids. After performing the splice, I put the glove back on.

--jhawk

Posted by Ben LaCrosse (Member # 4662) on 03-07-2008, 02:48 AM:

Cotton gloves leave too much debris for me. When I did use gloves I would also use a can of air to blow off all the little pieces of cotton that just gets everywhere, it seems. It was tedious and timely. I gave up and went all naturale.

I feel I do a much better job without gloves. My splices go through with virtually zero dust. Fingerprints? At first, I had a couple, during splicing. Not anymore. Around the cue's, yeah you'll be able to tell. Those are on the side and in black, no image.

I will say that gloves are not all that bad, however. I did like inspecting film with them. They are useful when winding trailers on from a core. And after you broke in a pair they didn't shed as much, but by that time they're dirty and you need to change them anyway.

It's just a matter of preference. That's what I love about it, you really can't be wrong.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-07-2008, 11:08 AM:

Mike no first I don't break down an assistant does but I taught him to leave one glove on and one off. We put a finger nail or thumb nail under the film and get one side to lift off trying not to touch the film but of course the finger nail has to. Once the side is peeled off we separate the film leaving the tape intact on the head side we attach the film leader to the splicing tape (with gloves back on) and wrap around and return the now full reel to the film box. Then we spice one side of the film and tail together and wind the tail around the next reel and start to take that reel off gloves on. When we get to the next reel joing splice we do it over.

As to the gloves I use film handling gloves a tightly woven glove very thin glove with little if any lent. There is little loss of feeling in them they are as thin as they can be! The gloves I guy (from a theater supply company) are a smallish glove that will stretch over ones hands fairly easy they are generic for left or right! One pair can last a day of build up and break down, they could probable go more but I throw them out after each Thursday.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-07-2008, 08:45 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
Do you speak from experience or speculation? I handcheck film with one glove and have done so for years, though occasionally I do without. I find that cotton gloves dramatically increase the sensitivity of my hands. In part this is because there is less friction against the cotton than the skin, so it's possible to get finer control of tension on the sides (without bowing).

It obviously depends... if you go without gloves then you get to feel directly on the film but the friction gets in the way of sensitivity and gloves get rid of friction while keeping your fingers further away so you get less sensitivity. It's a combination.

And most of the chain theater people will tend to have whatever gloves their chain gets... which tend to be the cheapest and only one size.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-07-2008, 09:15 PM:

Why does it "obviously depend"? Has anyone who has used gloves found that it decreases their sensitivity? Chris, have you used gloves and found that? (Also, I do not see why "further away" should have anything to do with it.)

I, like Ron, am puzzled by the comments about debris. I've never had any measurable debris from cotton gloves. What's the source of gloves that shed debris?

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-07-2008, 10:20 PM:

I used to be a strong supporter of not wearing gloves, but there came a point where inspecting dozens of prints each week was chewing up the skin on my fingers so I tried the whole glove thing.

I can definitely say that for people who are used to inspecting without gloves, there is a good solid period of time where you WILL miss lab splices and other slight deformations during your inspections. Ultimately now that I forced myself to learn to inspect films with gloves, I can do a better job overall.

Don't splice with them on! You will absolutely get a better splice with your bare hands. I only wear a glove on my left hand and then whenever I have to stop to do some sort of repair work or join reels together, I take it off and do the splicing with both hands bare, then slide it back onto my left hand to continue inspecting. I also toss the glove after inspecting one print (and this is usually after I have flipped the glove "backwards" on my hand halfway through the print to use the other side too). Gloves do tend to get dirty and collect dust that will get attracted to the print if you do not toss them regularly.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-07-2008, 11:38 PM:

At K-Theaters in Longmont, co they required you to wear gloves even when threading up!

Posted by Stu Jamieson (Member # 4626) on 03-08-2008, 02:16 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
Stu rights, "The problem with gloves is that you get a reduction in tactility with them, i.e. your ability to sense things with your fingers is reduced."

Do you speak from experience or speculation?

Not speculation, just fact. The skin is an incredibly sensitive organ and if you cover it up, then by default you decrease it's sensitivity to anything on the other side of the covering material. Take a pin and scrape it over the tip of your finger, then put on a glove and do the same; the difference in sensitivity is obvious. Brad makes a valid point that in time your senses sharpen to the point where you can do a serviceable job - no argument there - but that sensitivity can never be as fine as bare skin. It can't! You've put a barrier between the sensing tool and the workpiece.

As for friction, I'd say that (the way I do it, anyway) is negligible. Sure there's some initial friction for about the first second as the respiration is stripped from your fingers but after that it's a pretty smooth action, particularly after the film puts that nice smooth polish on them. The magnitude of friction is more a function of how you hold it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-08-2008, 02:23 AM:

But as I have found, when wearing gloves it permits you to get a better grip on the edges of the film to feel for defects, which is something the bare hands has to do very lightly.

There is one major problem with wearing gloves though, and that is some people seem to think they can feel the PICTURE area of the film with the gloves because "well, I'm wearing gloves so it's safe to run my fingers over the image area". Not so!

In the end though, whichever method works the best for a particular person is what I endorse. I've got some projectionists that use gloves and some that don't. That doesn't make one any better than the other provided good film handling practices are employed.

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 03-08-2008, 04:48 PM:

Didn't Fox send a package of white cotton gloves to all theaters scheduled to play the enhanced release of Episode IV back some years ago? Was this another one of Lucas's idosyncratic meddlings or an attempt to reeducate the masses in proper film handling techniques?

For the record I do not use gloves, but do respect the validity of those who do.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-08-2008, 06:34 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
Why does it "obviously depend"? Has anyone who has used gloves found that it decreases their sensitivity? Chris, have you used gloves and found that? (Also, I do not see why "further away" should have anything to do with it.)

Why does it depend? Because no two people are completely alike. And I'd say it's harder for me to notice a splice go by with gloves on than not.

And being further away has everything to do with it. It's called padding. Some of the force is dissipated inside the glove itself.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-08-2008, 09:12 PM:

Chris, I agree many things are harder with the gloves on. I have cut the fore finger out of right glove on occasion to have easier time with the splicing tape. I have put the film in position on the splicer then removed my right glove to do the splice, turn the film over with the left hand only and splice that side. I have spliced with the gloves on and unaltered it is harder to be sure. But I think the film is better off if you use the gloves.

I have never had a problem feeling the splices go though, but that is me, then again if I didn't feel the splice I would have had to be looking at the screen to know it!

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-08-2008, 09:48 PM:

quote:
I have never had a problem feeling the splices go though, but that is me, then again if I didn't feel the splice I would have had to be looking at the screen to know it!

Huh? I was referring to feeling the splice when tearing down a movie.

Though I'm not your average person in this respect... even now that I'm available to work on Thursdays I haven't been building up or tearing down regularly and last semester I had a class every Thursday night.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-09-2008, 12:23 AM:

On a similar note:
Do they make cotton finger cots? Since you shouldn't ever have your palm get near the print anyway I thought cots (especially with some elastic on the open end) would deal well with sizing problems that are found with cotton gloves.

The only finger cots I've ever found wouldn't work at all (being made of stuff similar to what Ron was asking about).

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-09-2008, 12:29 AM:

Brad, our Grand-Poopie-BAH, uses latex finger cots for safesex rubbers...fits him perfectly. [Eek!]

Posted by Scott Christopher (Member # 834) on 03-09-2008, 05:45 AM:

so you're only using gloves to allow the film to glide through your fingers or to protect your fingers? I don't use gloves to make-up/break-down prints - and yes, I have tried wearing them. My fingers are fine and I've been at this job for approx 15yrs. The trick for me was not to apply too much force to the film and don't try to wind too fast.

If you're idea was to also stop finger prints getting on the surface, then why remove the gloves to make spool joins/repairs?

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-09-2008, 11:40 AM:

Scott, I wear the gloves to protect the film not my fingers but it does do that. I only handle the tape with a bare finger not the film and yes if I have to make a repair to film I put the gloves on.