Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Handling Gloves Part II

This is topic Film Handling Gloves Part II in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Rene Ferron (Member # 4674) on 03-22-2008, 09:00 AM:

I know that there was a previous post on "Film Handling Gloves" but i just want to have an answer to my question.

I'm a new projectionist, about 6 weeks, and my mentor didn't show me to use gloves while handling film. But i took the initiative to use them, but i don't like the way they stretch and it's hard to apply the splice tape with them on.

I was just wondering if i could use "Mechanix Gloves" they fit snug enough that you can pick up a dime off the floor with them.

I would like you input on this idea of mine. Thanks, be gentle it's my first post. [Smile]

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-22-2008, 11:07 AM:

Quick google search indicates those are made from (on palm/fingers) of a synthetic rubber. Methinks that would (just like the stuff mentioned early in the other thread) make for way too much friction between it and the film. Unless you went super-slow, I would imagine the film would get snagged easily. And I would think that rubber would be much more insulating for tactile feeling since it's a harder substance than cotton so even if there was low friction it might be hard to notice splices/damage.

Posted by Rene Ferron (Member # 4674) on 03-22-2008, 11:28 AM:

I just checked in store and the fingers are made from leather, a very soft leather.

So with this new info what would be your input ?
Thx.

PS: It's not that i won't use the white glove but i'm looking for an alternative.

Posted by Ed Alvarado (Member # 2760) on 03-23-2008, 12:55 AM:

you dont really need to use those white gloves! they have no use in the booth once you get the feeling of the film and how it works you wont ever have to use the gloves. but NO LEATHER GLOVES should be used in the booth just dont use that it infact ignore and pretend you never brought that up. the only time you should ever need to use a glove is if the film pops out of place and instead of stoping the film from running you can use the gloves to help the film slide with no friction and place the film back in place.

Posted by Rene Ferron (Member # 4674) on 03-23-2008, 11:23 AM:

Thx for the Advice.

I'm new to this and well the guy that showed me how to do what was not the best in town if you know what i mean. He had about 20 years experience but with a lot of flaws that i don't want carry on with me. I want to be a "good" head projectionist.

Later, and thanks again.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-23-2008, 01:08 PM:

Err...

I don't mean to knock Ed, but I do not think his reply reflects general concensus. There are basically two schools of thought:

1. Gloves are great, use them.
2. Gloves aren't necessary, but don't cause problems.

Anyone who feels gloves "have no use in the booth" is expressing a minority opinion. You should really read the long thread (Film Handling Gloves) to see this clearly.

As for your new question, on leather gloves, I think you're not going to find much experience with this topic, nor any strong concensus, or even two camps like cotton gloves. Logic suggests that leather gloves can reduce sensitivity and make it easy to miss nicks in the edge of film, or worse, to catch on film and increase pre-existing damage, but I don't really know that is true. I do wonder what Ed is basing his statement on.

Also, film handling gloves really need to be disposable or cleanable. They get dirty. I'm not sure that's going to work with leather.

As was mentioned in the gloves thread, many people remove a glove to perform a splice, and then put it back on. That's what I do, and I find it's not very intrusive.

When you mention snugness, are you suggesting that the cotton gloves you're using are not snug? Generally when new, they are slightly smaller than the hand, and stretch to fit within the first few minutes of use---so they fit very snugly and tightly indeed. Could you be using the wrong kind of glove, or maybe a size much too big?

Best of luck.

--jhawk

Posted by Ed Alvarado (Member # 2760) on 03-25-2008, 05:48 AM:

yeah well its spelt CONSENSUS
and my opinion is from 6yrs of booth.

its worthless while building films.
leaves fibers on splices.
cant get a grip when trying to splice.
always sticks to the zebra tape and gives you trouble.

using speco platters the film always pops out of the brain and rollers and thats the main reason I use the gloves it helps.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 03-25-2008, 10:24 PM:

Here we go again with people getting pissed when some one doesn't agree with their opinion..

I've been doing this for over 5 years now and I like to use one glove on my left hand, and keep my right hand clear. That way I can pull the tape with the right hand and smooth it down with my left hand. This way I don't leave any oils or grease on the tape from my hand.

If your using Zebra tape in your booth then your probably not to worried about fibers being left on the print. But hey thats just my opinion.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-26-2008, 11:03 AM:

quote: Kurt Zupin
If your using Zebra tape in your booth then your probably not to worried about fibers being left on the print. But hey thats just my opinion.

Speaking of which...
Do they make tape similar to Zebra, but where the yellow is only on the edges? Because that would seem to get rid of the problem of the yellow mark appearing on screen.

And yes, I know about edge-marking tape.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-26-2008, 11:17 AM:

If using Neumade's striped tape...it alternates between with and without the stripe down the frame line so you can choose which way to apply it. JackRoe's SpliceMark is available in yellow and magenta without the stripe down the middle and it is available in 19mm...which won't drop digital so easily...BUT that does put the tape edge in the middle of the frame.

Best to just run changeovers [Wink]

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-26-2008, 11:58 AM:

Cant we all just get along?

Just kidding of course we can't!

I guess we could all go back to 20 minute reels and carbon arc! Oh the good old days! I miss them, sometimes! Once in a while! Sort of!

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-26-2008, 12:05 PM:

Over the next few years it will all be a moot point.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 03-26-2008, 06:59 PM:

It'll never be a moot point, Digital will never take over completely. There will still be houses that run film, either full time or the classics. But film won't just disappear one night never to be heard from again.

Posted by Rene Ferron (Member # 4674) on 03-26-2008, 07:26 PM:

I have to agree with Kurt, Film (16/35 mm) as been around for over 100 years and all the little problem as been seen and dealt with, but as for digital there are more and more problems coming in every day and it will take a while for the digital to completely take over.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-26-2008, 07:40 PM:

You may be right but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. They can put the classics on a hard drive just as easy as a new feature. Never say never. Now archiving may be a different story but release prints will most likely eventually disapear.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-26-2008, 08:02 PM:

Wagons were used for well over 2,000 years seen horse drawn freight around your neighborhood anymore? The big flat straight razor was used for centuries do you shave with one? Barbers don't even use them anymore. Lanterns how many of those do you light each night? Womens dresses for centuries covered nearly ever square inch of their body! Men had button flies! Just because something is old doesn't make it the best or right or last! Just being the best doesn't make it last.

Nothing last forever but the earth and sky all we have is Dust in the Wind! Wise word!

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 03-26-2008, 08:10 PM:

And film has out lasted almost all of those, actually it has out lasted all of them. I'm not saying that Digital won't win out in the long run, but to say Film will be a moot point is a gross understatment. Film will still be played some where long after you die and I die. Its just like change over houses, people thougth they'd die off but guess what, still around.

Posted by Rene Ferron (Member # 4674) on 03-26-2008, 08:13 PM:

I understand what you're saying but Digital is not going to take over in 3 days that's what i was saying.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-26-2008, 08:55 PM:

Kurt said

quote: Kurt Zupin
And film has out lasted almost all of those, actually it has out lasted all of them.

This statement is flawed to out last means to be around longer than so to out last something that has been around for more than 2,000 years and actually in one form or another for over 4,000 years you must be around for a longer period of time. Film has merely hung around after the other passed. It has a 100 year history and in the grand and great scheme of things that is "but a drop in the great blue motion of the ocean, but some of the drops shine" and film certainly shines but it will pass!

I have no great desire to see film gone, but I have no great desire to see it stay and be so miss treated as he has been of late. Labs rush the product, projectionist treat it as if it was made of steel and can't be harmed.

So in some ways digital is certainly appealing to me.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 03-26-2008, 11:54 PM:

I'm not going to argue with you about it. If your sick of seeing Film handled like steel then you should help teach new projectionist the proper way to handle film.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-27-2008, 10:09 AM:

Kurt I'm not arguing and I'm not attacking film or defending digital. I'm saying change is going to happen happen. Mono has been used as the primary sound source in a majority of theaters until the 1990's and would be willing to bet you wouldn't want to watch a film with mono sound.

I think the Digital formula is well on the way to being the way movies will be presented. When we reach a point that 23,000 plus screens have the digital the cost on film will skyrocket and the film company will make you pay the price of the print outside of the % you pay for the film. At that point all small operators will either go to digital or out of business. Maybe 7 to 10 years from this point in time. Others on here think soon!

I do teach new projectionist how to handle film properly it is part of my job. I can't however go to other operations and state "you guys suck at this let me train you right" it just isn't acceptable to them.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-27-2008, 09:48 PM:

quote: Darryl Spicer
You may be right but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. They can put the classics on a hard drive just as easy as a new feature.

I couldn't agree more. There are a lot of emotions in the film vs. digital square off. I think this results in a lot of wishful thinking. Oh, sure, film collectors will still have their prints and projectors (and, like Darryl said, probably some archives) - much like you can still find an odd person here and there with that CED player in their living room, or the 4" Quad machine in the basement. It's like VHS vs DVD... are movies even sold on VHS tape anymore? (Btw, do NOT insert the 'but it's better quality' retort here - the fact remains that it's a different format and it's a transistion. Whether the transistion is for better or worse is yet to be seen because the technology is still evolving.)

Believe me, no one hates to say goodbye to theatrical film more than I, but I've also got to be realistic. A few years ago, a lot of people on this forum swore we would never get to the point we are now with Digital Cinema. We are witnessing history, folks. A new paradigm, and it's in transistion NOW.

This is akin to what Vitaphone was to our forebearers. That was a MAJOR change. Many of us here remember carbon arc and 20-minute reels - these are foreign concepts to the vast majority of people in the business today, yet we saw those fade, as much as it pained some of us to witness.

We will persevere.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 03-27-2008, 09:57 PM:

The main source of light for the digital picture are xenon lamps, which will still need to be changed. The lamphousing will have fans that need to be maintained/replaced and diodes that may or may not go out. There will still be sound processors and amplifiers that will need occasional servicing.
As Darryl mentioned in another thread, the digital equipment will gather dust in the booth, and someone will have to remove the dust...
The other areas of the theatre will remain unchanged.
There looks like there will be plenty of work that needs to be done...

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-28-2008, 12:18 AM:

Precisely! We are presently swamped with digital work.