This is topic Iron Man prints have locks (here we go again) in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-25-2008, 10:14 PM:
 
Below is a fax that is supposed to go out on the date listed below if not sooner.

Date: Monday, April 28, 2008
To: United States Domestic Movie Theatres
From: Deluxe Film Services
Re: Paramount’s IRON MAN opening Friday, May 2, 2008

Attention Theatres:

Your theatre(s) should start receiving prints of Paramount’s IRON MAN the week of April 28, 2008. Upon receipt, the Locked Can will contain Reels 1,2,3 & 7. The lock is not to be opened until Thursday, May 1st per Paramount’s request. The combination code will be available for release at 9:00 a.m. (EST time) on May 1st. The Unlocked Can will contain all enclosure trailers, Reels 4, 5, & 6, projectionist letter, and an instruction letter from Paramount.

There are several ways for you to retrieve the combination code that opens the can, but the retrieval methods will not work until 9:00 a.m. (EST time) Thursday, May 1st. The lock code will be available for you via several easy options:

Call Deluxe Film Services at: 1-866-524-3456 (FILM) - a message will greet you with the code information.

Send an e-mail to: Ironman@etsdirect.com - an automated response will provide code information.

Visit the following website: www.ironmanlockcode.bydeluxe.com

Via broadcast fax – a fax with the lock combination code will be sent out on the morning of May 1st.

Please note: The lock combination code will not be released and all code retrieval methods will not work until 9:00 a.m. (EST time) on Thursday, May 1st.

If you have any questions, please contact Deluxe Film Services at:
1-800-734-3969
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-26-2008, 01:33 AM:
 
Why are they so paranoid about friggin' Iron Man of all things?
 

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Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 04-26-2008, 01:42 AM:
 
My thoughts exactly....... and I have a mandatory 8:00 PM show!
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-26-2008, 01:45 AM:
 
I noticed in that one that there was no mention of do not tamper or cut off the locks and if you do we will hunt you down like the pirate dogs you are and throw you in the slammer comment.

At least the Transformers one had the first 3 reels and the trailers in the can so you could build the first half up on the platter if you wanted to. This time you can't even do that.
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 04-26-2008, 03:35 AM:
 
I talked with my delivery guy and he said that we won't be getting our prints until May 1st. I really don't see the problem here. We will have ours by 3pm. We have 3 prints and 8pm, 9pm, and 10pm shows along with the midnights, whats the problem here with the 8pm shows?

While the locks are dumb, if you can get the code by 9am whats the problem? Can you not build up multiple prints in 11 hours? I know we won't get to screen them, but I think thats what all the fuss is about more then anything. People want to see it and are upset they won't get to see it on the 30th.

Edit: Because I don't know how many days are in the month of April

[ 04-26-2008, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Kurt Zupin ]
 

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Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 04-26-2008, 03:54 AM:
 
Am I right in thinking Transformers was the last movie to get this special treatment? I don't think Iron Man is Transformers big, that put bread on the table all summer at my theater.

I do sort of think it is ridiculous, since I have a midnight of it and would have screened it Wednesday night. I mean, it isn't that big a deal, since we regularly put things on screen sight unseen, but I don't see why they feel this is a useful precaution. With CAP coding and whatnot, they should be able to hunt me down if I try to pirate it, right?
 

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Posted by Mike Baer (Member # 1519) on 04-26-2008, 04:38 AM:
 
I don't understand why they make such a big thing about not open the cans before May 1st. In Switzerland and Germany Iron Man is released on Wednesday April 30th.(Because May 1st is a Holiday it is released on Wednesday)
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-26-2008, 07:46 AM:
 
Is the pirated version already out?? Louis
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-26-2008, 09:36 AM:
 
Sheesh, what are they going to do to top these security measures when Indy comes out? Send the individual reels in separate armored trucks (with snakes)?
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 04-26-2008, 10:33 AM:
 
What pisses me off is that they lock up the first half of the print. I'm getting 4 prints, in which it is madatory to view all prints before showing it to the public. I usually get my prints from ETS on Wed, so I have to sit and wait to load all these prints, find time to run them (which means cancelling shows during the day which is against policy) and then run them, possibly interlock them for an 8PM showing. And I'm sure there is already a pirated copy floating around.

At least they could do is give us the print opened up to reel 6 or 7, then all we need to do is load the last reel. That could be done 10 mins prior to showing.
 

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 04-26-2008, 11:02 AM:
 
Right on, Bernie. And I'll bet the trailers are in the can with the #7 reel, making it impossible to build a trailer core ahead of time.

What a bunch of dopes.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-26-2008, 11:27 AM:
 

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr

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And I'll bet the trailers are in the can with the #7 reel, making it impossible to build a trailer core ahead of time.

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quote: Darryl Spicer

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The Unlocked Can will contain all enclosure trailers

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Sheesh, what are they going to do to top these security measures when Indy comes out? Send the individual reels in separate armored trucks (with snakes)?

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Dont give them any ideas!!!

Is it possible to build the last reels of the print onto a large reel so that it is ready to just spin on, or am I missing something here? I don't know what kind of lock they use but if it is like a Master Lock or something one might just cut if off with a lock cutter then replace it with a new one. Maybe when they get the print back and cant open the lock they will think twice about doing that again. As a matter of fact I bet if the majority of people replaced the locks with different ones technicolor would change thier tune really quickly! (I am just joking of course)
 

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Posted by Markus Lemm (Member # 3456) on 04-26-2008, 12:32 PM:
 
I am assuming that there is ONLY ONE code to open all the prints, since the website http://www.ironmanlockcode.bydeluxe.com/ has 4 X's waiting to be filled in. This means there is only 10,000 possible combos. Get 10 people to try 1000 combos each or 100 people to try 100 combos and the winner posts the working combo. Problem solved. Divide and conquer!
(Person 1 tries 0000-0999, Person 2 tries 1000-1999 and so on)
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-26-2008, 01:00 PM:
 

quote: Markus Lemm

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I am assuming that there is ONLY ONE code to open all the prints, since the website http://www.ironmanlockcode.bydeluxe.com/ has 4 X's waiting to be filled in. This means there is only 10,000 possible combos. Get 10 people to try 1000 combos each or 100 people to try 100 combos and the winner posts the working combo. Problem solved. Divide and conquer!
(Person 1 tries 0000-0999, Person 2 tries 1000-1999 and so on)

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quote: Fred Tucker

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The problem is i cant get to work and start build up until 6. I was OK with 8PM shows when I thought I could build up the night before..... I just hate rushing when building a print.

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quote: Kurt Zupin

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People want to see it and are upset they won't get to see it on the 31st.

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I would be too since there are only 30 days in April
 

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Posted by Stu Jamieson (Member # 4626) on 04-26-2008, 07:49 PM:
 

quote: Mike Blakesley

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Sheesh, what are they going to do to top these security measures when Indy comes out? Send the individual reels in separate armored trucks (with snakes)?

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quote: Jim Bedford

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Boltcutter

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What he said.
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 04-26-2008, 10:23 PM:
 

quote: Darryl Spicer

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I would be too since there are only 30 days in April

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lol, but in my world there are 31 my bad
 

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Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 04-26-2008, 11:09 PM:
 

quote: "Jim Bedford"

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Boltcutter

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This is likely a naive question, but wouldn't they ask for their locks back to prevent this sort of thing?
 

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Posted by Stu Jamieson (Member # 4626) on 04-26-2008, 11:15 PM:
 
"What's that? You want the lock back? Oh, I'm sorry, we appear to have misplaced that."
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 04-27-2008, 03:06 AM:
 
I would ask of my employees "Do you have any useless locks laying around the house you'd want to get rid of?" and fill up all the available space in the cans with them.
 

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-27-2008, 03:33 AM:
 
I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers and hope the people at Deluxe manage to get all the right reels in the cans and there aren't any problems with any of the reels. I feel bad for those projectionists that will have 4-5 prints to build on Thursday. Of course this is just a preview of what will happen in 3 weeks with Indiana Jones.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-27-2008, 04:13 AM:
 
Once again, NATO is silent in all this nonsense. Instead, they make a big deal sending dire warnings to all members about some bulb company sending invoices billing $18 for bulbs that they originally said were free.

Seems to me boltcutters and futzing with combinations isn't the answer....hit them on the front end -- just say the locks prevented the print to be properly checked and so it will not be played until May 2nd. NO BOX OFFICE RETURN for the 1st. THAT will be what makes brains cells explode in their frontal lobes. That sure will get them to think twice about doing this kind of thing. As if anyone who was going to steal a print would be stopped by a $5 lock.

Or maybe they just want everyone to feel equal....after all, the guys playing digital prints don't get the key until the studio says so -- maybe they just don't want 35mm print guys to feel left out. They want us to get used to the way it will be in the future....THEY control EVERYTHING. Get used to it.

Still, sending it back with a different lock would be too delicious for words.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 04-27-2008, 07:26 AM:
 
If Home Land Security will not allow DHL to accept cans sealed with Zip Ties, how will they ever allow real LOCKS?

And this on a mass shipment to buildings where there are mass public gatherings all over the country!


KEN
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-27-2008, 09:51 AM:
 

quote: Kenneth Wuepper

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If Home Land Security will not allow DHL to accept cans sealed with Zip Ties, how will they ever allow real LOCKS?

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Well, seeing that all the locks have the same combination it would be easy for them to give DHL the combination so that they can be opened by them to check the contents... Which kind of defeats the purpose doesnt it?

I wonder what would happen if someone hacked into the website and changed the code to the wrong one and thousands of theatres couldn't get the cans open? I bet that if that happened we would never see locked cans again!

I would cut the lock and just put another lock back on in it's place. When it gets back tot he depot I am pretty sure they will just consider the lock broken and chop it off... If they make a big deal out of it just say that you screwed up and mixed up the lock with your gym locker lock, and then when you couldnt get your gym locker open you had to cut the lock off!
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-27-2008, 10:37 AM:
 
If the locks are TSA-approved, TSA officials can open them with some special master key. They don't need the combination.

TSA Recognized Baggage Locks
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-27-2008, 11:15 AM:
 
Instead of a bolt cutter, get a big sledge hammer and just destroy the lock and/or the hasp. That happens in shipping anyway. Then they can't say you destroyed the lock - instead you can say "thank heavens all the reels made it OK!"
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-27-2008, 11:18 AM:
 
TSA fucking sucks, don't get me started. I locked my tool case and my personal luggage with TSA approved locks that I spent quite a bit of money on. When I arrived home, my personal luggage still had The TSA lock on it, but when I opened it,my $500 dollar digital camera and some other electronics were missing. All TSA would do was take a report and investigate. Never heard from them again. So if you ever see me at the airport, I'm the guy trying to make the TSA guys life a living hell. Fuck them!
 

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Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-27-2008, 11:53 AM:
 
DHL doesn't haul film for Delux it is another carrier and different carriers in different areas.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-27-2008, 12:28 PM:
 
Ron,

You missed the point. If DHL can't use zip-ties because the TSA says so, wouldn't TSA go ape shit over having a metal lock that wasn't TSA-approved?
 

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Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-27-2008, 12:40 PM:
 
Well all the film I have received over the last few weeks have still had the zip locks on them. I understand the point I have yet to see any change in the way they have been doing it here.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 04-27-2008, 01:43 PM:
 
I wonder how many minimum-wage interns they hire to change the lock codes???


 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-27-2008, 02:05 PM:
 
I think Frank has a strong point here. If NATO was worth anything, they would be forcing these studios to knock this shit off. LOCKS DOES NOT STOP PIRACY!!! A pirate at the theater level will chop the locks off and just replace it with an identical lock, coded to the same combination once it is made known, or they will simply say they lost it or any one of the other easily used excuses outlined already in this thread. Besides a true pirate (non-theater employee) will just laugh at this and do his bootlegging before the prints make it to the depots, or on their way to the theaters or at the lab/post-production house.

All this waiting until the morning of bullshit does is jack up the payroll at the theaters because extra booth staff has to be brought in and is in a frenzy to get the prints put together at the last second. Mistakes are made and hundreds of excited paying customers get fucked over because of a simple print assembly mistake. It happens, people are human.

This really does boil down to being a responsibility of NATO to stand up for reasonable assembly and pre-check screening time. The studios will continue to push and control harder and harder if the theaters let them get away with it. So how about it NATO? Care to do something good for the theaters you represent?
 

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Posted by Danial Simmonds (Member # 4638) on 04-28-2008, 11:41 AM:
 
What could i say, aye aye captain?

Locks even passwords for digital will never stop privacy until some housekeeping is done.
 

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Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 04-28-2008, 06:43 PM:
 
Is it likely that this will also be the time that the keys are valid for the digital version?
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 04-29-2008, 01:14 AM:
 
Did all of the locks from Transformers make it back to ETS?
 

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Posted by Stu Jamieson (Member # 4626) on 04-29-2008, 06:32 AM:
 

quote: Richard Hamilton

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TSA fucking sucks, don't get me started. I locked my tool case and my personal luggage with TSA approved locks that I spent quite a bit of money on. When I arrived home, my personal luggage still had The TSA lock on it, but when I opened it,my $500 dollar digital camera and some other electronics were missing. All TSA would do was take a report and investigate. Never heard from them again. So if you ever see me at the airport, I'm the guy trying to make the TSA guys life a living hell. Fuck them!

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That's disgraceful! If this TSA mob want to have rights to open your luggage then they should have an insurance programme to cover theft by their employees.

I take it that "NATO" in the context of this thread does not mean "North Atlantic Treaty Organisation"?
 

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Posted by Philip Jordan (Member # 4517) on 04-29-2008, 07:29 AM:
 
Uk prints have arrived, all odd numbered reels arrived yesterday, and even numbered reels arrive later today with no locks.
 

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 04-29-2008, 09:27 AM:
 
Aren't Paramount prints delivered by ETS? If so, they'll either come in the beat up metal cans or the clam-shell plastic cans.

Rumor has it... not that I would know anything about it... the hinge rods on the plastic clam shell cases are removable.

I know nothing.....

I think we still have one of those "0217" Transformers locks lying around the building. I swore I returned that thing with the print. Damn kids.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-29-2008, 12:01 PM:
 
Probably 80% of our ETS/Deluxe prints are coming in the Fox boxes these days.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 04-29-2008, 04:04 PM:
 
For those not familiar:

NATO = National Association of Theater Owners
http://www.natoonline.org/

Alas, just as impotent as the North American Treaty Organization
http://www.nato.int/


 

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Posted by Rene Ferron (Member # 4674) on 04-29-2008, 05:04 PM:
 
So if i get this right all the locks have the same codes ?

Would it be ok if someone finds it and post it here ?

Just wondering.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-29-2008, 05:26 PM:
 
That would be asking yourself to get fired
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-29-2008, 06:16 PM:
 
Or your theatre to never get another Paramount or Deluxe print.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 04-29-2008, 08:20 PM:
 
Do they really think that some locks will stop somebody who stands to make some money by pirating the movie from cutting them off?
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 04-29-2008, 08:35 PM:
 
I feel you guys pain.

I am having to re-work my whole Thursday schedule because of this shit. We are having to drop several films Thurs. afternoon just to screen this damn thing.

I sure wish they would stop this shit. Where have I read this before? Is it just too much to ask for a WEDNESDAY delivery?
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-30-2008, 12:00 AM:
 
Remember Bruce to cancel Paramount films in order to do the proper check-screening. Also think twice about programming Paramount trailers for the next 6 months. It's only fair.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-30-2008, 12:06 AM:
 
So has anyone...ANYone ever written to the Exhibitor Relations people at the studios about this kind of thing? I know I haven't, but it doesn't affect me much with one screen. You multiplex guys really get screwed on this kind of thing. You can get the addresses/contact numbers etc from the various studio websites. If you DO write and hear something back, be sure to post your results here somewhere.
 

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-30-2008, 12:18 AM:
 
Another thing that bothers me about this is that I am in the process of training someone to build up. She's done 4-5 films on her own at this point. Because we may have to play it unseen, I'm going to have to build it myself. Which means she loses some experience. And then we have the same situation in 3 weeks.
 

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Posted by Jake Lafree (Member # 3656) on 04-30-2008, 01:00 AM:
 
10,000 possible combinations......I'm going to have at least 7 people working to discover the code Wednesday night.......some are at another theater that will get their prints about 90 mins before we do. We should have it in the bag.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-30-2008, 01:50 AM:
 
Although I don't actually want anyone doing this, it would be quite funny to have a contest on the forum. By numbering the 50 states, each state could be assigned to 200 combinations and if we really wanted to we could knock this out in about 10 minutes.

Seriously though, anyone who does figure out the lock please do not post it here.
 

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Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 04-30-2008, 06:52 PM:
 
Well, it seems a moot point to me now, since I have not received my prints yet. What is the point if they aren't even going to deliver them until the code is available?
 

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Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-30-2008, 07:42 PM:
 
Well it is Wednesday after noon and no print here yet!
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-30-2008, 09:38 PM:
 
Jake if I had a lock I'd pitch in some help. We're showing a film in Spanish this weekend. Brad, I love that idea.

AJG
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 04-30-2008, 11:47 PM:
 
I never understood why everyone was complaining about them being locked when nobodys going to get them till Thursday, didn't make much sense. The problem is, I know the code and it dosn't matter. Have no cans to unlock and no prints to build.
 

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Posted by Michael Wilkinson (Member # 2389) on 05-01-2008, 12:01 AM:
 
WTF I just came in to build the and screen the print. Oh am I pissed too...I have other things and shows I have to run tomorrow. So I guess I can come in at 9AM, build it, watch it, and say f-it to everything else that needed doing Thursday...I feel really bad for those who've got 5 prints. Didn't this business used to be more fun before the been counters and piraters f-d it all up??? I'm losing the love. Someone should deliver a shrunken head to whoever came up with this b-s idea. Didn't anyone at Para----mount ever hear the saying "locks are for honest people???

Wow.

BTW I never got the fax. Good work Deluxe.
 

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Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 05-01-2008, 01:15 AM:
 
I know the codes...and they work. I will not post as Brad asked but I will tell if somebody goes through the channels outside this site.
 

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Posted by Burleigh Ibbott (Member # 3917) on 05-01-2008, 02:56 AM:
 
Do they have locks on the UK prints too?
By the way its good to see the UK release dates of films tally with the US. This will help reduce piracy.
 

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Posted by Mike Schulz (Member # 4297) on 05-01-2008, 03:47 AM:
 
Let the record show that the five numeric digits I had previously posted here do not match the four digits required to open any of the Iron Man film cans. I was merely trying to get a chuckle out of the group here but realize this is not the place for that. Please accept my apology.

-Mike

[ 05-01-2008, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Mike Schulz ]
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-01-2008, 10:05 AM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

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Seriously though, anyone who does figure out the lock please do not post it here.

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Wow, way to pay attention, Schulz.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-01-2008, 10:51 AM:
 
As one who will not be playing this film, and as one who generally thinks that these anti-piracy measures are worthless at best and counter-productive at worst, I'm still at a loss to figure out what the problem is here.

Theatres can't open cans until Thursday, for a film that is scheduled to open on Friday? Isn't that typical, anyway? In general, it seems pretty rare for prints to be delivered more than a day before opening, anyway. I agree that this is not ideal, but I don't see how this situation is any different from the situation with most prints.

Brad--you actually expect NATO to do something worthwhile? Have they done anything productive in the last decade? The only recent NATO "accomplishments" that I can think of are cyan tracks (which reduced sound quality while costing exhibitors money) and the trailer volume level thing (which was totally ineffective). They sure do like to congratulate themselves on how great they are, though.
 

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Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 05-01-2008, 11:15 AM:
 

quote: Kurt Zupin

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I never understood why everyone was complaining about them being locked when nobodys going to get them till Thursday, didn't make much sense.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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Theatres can't open cans until Thursday, for a film that is scheduled to open on Friday? Isn't that typical, anyway?

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quote: Mike Spaeth

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Paramount is not REQUIRING 8pm shows. They are ALLOWING 8pm shows. Your corporate office may be REQUIRING them.

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quote: Scott Norwood

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Ah...I get it. It essentially _is_ a Thursday night release.

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quote: Carey Barber

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Some of the posts that are really ranting about this seem kinda silly.

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Maybe so; in context it is mostly an inconvenience. But what I am concerned about is the precedent. Meaning: padlocked cans...what's next? So call me silly but I've never been a big fan of some of the bad ideas that result from corporate beurocracies.

For me personally (and surely most of you out there)I'm in this business because I enjoy being in this business... Screening the film before hand isn't just doing my job but I feel that it is something that I'm entitled to. This was one of the few films of late that I actually wanted to sit through (and not just peek in once in a while)...so maybe I was just a bit disappointed.

When digital projection becomes the only reality I guess we won't be allowed to screen the "films" any more. Better hope then that there isn't a disk error!
 

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Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 05-01-2008, 05:05 PM:
 
I know it's optional because I book film, and my Paramount rep told me to relay to my theatres that they are allowed to start showing early, but could only advertise it as "Special Advance Screening" not a regular screening. Its release date is Friday, May 2.
 

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Posted by Robin Dorking (Member # 460) on 05-01-2008, 05:21 PM:
 
How the prints arrived in the UK.

Monday April 28th. Reels 1,3,5,7 arrived in transit case. NO LOCKS!

Tuesday April 29th Reels 2,4,6 arrived in packing tape sealed CARDBOARD BOX.

Make up prints Tuesday.

Tecnical Run through Wednesday.

All day previews Thursday 1st.

No Locks here in the UK yet. We are not as touchy as Homeland Security in the USA.

Think it's because of our past (IRA bombings) and all that. We seem to take things like boxes that are larger enough to put nasty things in our stride.

If it ticks, it goes outside!!
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-01-2008, 05:25 PM:
 
The locks didn't have anything to do with Homeland Security-in fact the issue that was brought up about homeland security it their regulations regarding locked shipments; that is they need to be able to inspect certain packages. The thing with the prints being locked is a supposed anti-piracy measure. No one really screens prints for technical qaulity you see, movies are screened the night before so the staff has the chance to camcorder them and put them on the internet.
 

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Posted by Robin Dorking (Member # 460) on 05-01-2008, 05:37 PM:
 
Fair enough Dustin, thought is was to do with Homeland Security by other posts.

As you can see by my previous post, you can see the anti-piracy packaging that is used.

If ANY of our staff were caught in our theatre filming a film , first they would have to explain to my Technical Manager, then our General Manager ( a tuff cookie she is!).

Piracy is one of the reasons we will not at our site run a film for the staff unless there is a duty manager on site. So then it's them who take the blame if it goes up on the Internet!
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-01-2008, 06:34 PM:
 

quote: Mike Spaeth

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my Paramount rep told me to relay to my theatres that they are allowed to start showing early, but could only advertise it as "Special Advance Screening" not a regular screening. Its release date is Friday, May 2

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quote:

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Man, I could be a bean counter!

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Aren't already? You do own your own business.
 

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Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 05-02-2008, 12:42 PM:
 
We took the ability to begin screenings at 8pm to the extreme. We had showtimes at 8, 8:30, 9, 9:30, 10:15, 10:30, 11 and 11:30. And had relatively good traffic on most of them.

We did this last year on "Pirates of the Caribbean" as well.
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-02-2008, 01:34 PM:
 
Anybody else interlocking this gem?
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-03-2008, 12:37 AM:
 
Why the hell would a movie pirate be deterred by a $2.00 lock?

If I was going to pirate a movie, I'd steal a print off the back of a truck somewhere and take it to my secret basement movie theater where I cut the lock off with bolt cutters at my leisure.

By the time I was done copying the print to video and burning the first copies of the DVD, the print would be declared "lost in transit" and the insurance company would be cutting the reimbursement check before the week is out.

Neither padlocks on print cans nor delaying delivery would deter me because the prints would never even make it to the theater.

I know a guy who pirated a movie at the Premier. He had a guy with a telecine in the back of a truck park outside the theater. He played the first reel of the movie then handed it off to his buddy who copied it to tape and had it back by the time the second reel was done playing. 20 minutes after the movie was finished, the print was back in the director's hands and nobody was the wiser.

It's like car alarms... The only good they do is let the cops know where to find the stripped-out chassis that used to be your car!
 

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Posted by Ben Goodman (Member # 4770) on 05-03-2008, 01:33 AM:
 
Rumor has it that a Regal theatre in Orlando actually lost their prints due to breaking the code and screening the prints to their staff on Wednesday night. Somehow Paramount found out, I guess-- I don't know the whole story but I can't believe that studios are actually going to these lengths to treat theatre operators like criminals.
 

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Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 05-03-2008, 02:28 AM:
 

quote: "Bruce McGee"

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Anybody else interlocking this gem?

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quote: Bruce McGee

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Anybody else interlocking this gem?

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Yep. Did a last minute interlock for the first evening show. We anticipate doing so Saturday night. Crowd reaction has been very good. A lot of them saying that they intend on coming back to watch it again.
 

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Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 05-03-2008, 06:24 AM:
 
We have 4 prints and didn't interlock on Thursday, Sold out all but our 9 oclock shows and ran 3 midnights of it. We did interlock tonight at 10:00 and sold out two 270s in a matte of 10 minutes. We are interlocking from 2:20 till close on the same aud as above and possible in another two from 6 to close. That would put us on 5 screens with 4 and if we do the other 6 screens.

I love it!!!!!
 

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 05-03-2008, 07:42 AM:
 
And all of this protection and inconvenience kept IRON MAN off of the file-sharing networks until early morning on Friday, May 2. Some foreign-language versions were out even sooner.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-03-2008, 12:34 PM:
 

quote: Ben Goodman

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Rumor has it that a Regal theatre in Orlando actually lost their prints due to breaking the code and screening the prints to their staff on Wednesday night. Somehow Paramount found out, I guess-- I don't know the whole story but I can't believe that studios are actually going to these lengths to treat theatre operators like criminals.

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I don't buy that for a second. First off the studio would be losing money with that stunt. Second, Regal has more pull than that. That is somebody trying to put a scare into you.
 

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 05-03-2008, 01:24 PM:
 
I checked the REGAL website, and all theatres in Orlando have IRON MAN.
 

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Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 05-03-2008, 02:27 PM:
 
I know for a fact that DID NOT HAPPEN in Florida. As Brad said...scare tactic.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-03-2008, 03:32 PM:
 
Yet the funny part about that is I'll bet there WERE theaters in Florida who had their cans opened the night before.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-03-2008, 06:01 PM:
 
I am told that IRON MAN is already on the internet. And it's not a theatre screen copy. So much for their idiotic locks.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-03-2008, 09:15 PM:
 
At the risk of descending into grey areas..according to vcdquality.com, a pirate web site that rates pirated copies of films but does not actually distribute them ("plausible deniability"), there are at least two copies of Ironman floating around Internet filesharing the networks.

The first, labelled "SUBBED.CAM" is a through-the air capture with asian character subtitles, presumably from an international release; it is dated Thursday, May 1st.

The second, labelled "PROPER.CAM" appears also to be a through-the-air capture, but without subtitles. Dated Friday, May 2nd.

I think this means Paramount is right to be concerned.
(However, Frank, your argument is broken. If in fact the pirated versions already available were not from theatre prints, that may simply mean that their security is effective. You simply cannot win this kind of argument without access to massive amounts of data about the piracy and their profit and loss and what kinds of security measures are too costly.)

The reality of this piracy is that it is a multi-pronged effort, fighting against both large organized crime groups and random guys with camcorders who might work in theatres (and also random guys with camcorders who sneak in to theatres).

Sure, locks on a print are not going to deter a determined pirate with a quarter-million dollar telecine in his private meth/film lab. But for everyone one of those, there are a hundred opportunistic theatre employees who would tape a preview screening. (And for every one of those, there are a few thousand people who sneak into theatres with camcorders; I'm making these numbers up.)

I have a lot of sympathy for the studios on this. They're trying to do all they can, which isn't much.

Of course, in my theatre, if you get me a decent print twenty-minutes before it needs to be on-screen, I'm happy (changeover). Obviously there should be better communications between studios and exhibitors, but really you can blame this on the chains. They're the only exhibitors with sufficient market clout to negotiate these issues in a way that really matters.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 05-03-2008, 09:27 PM:
 
When Transformers had the locks on the can we later saw the lock combination appeared in the movie (it was the main character's online username).

I was told by one of my projectionists that the Iron Man code appears when Gwyneth Paltrow enters a pass code to get into a door. I have not been able to verify this myself, but I was wondering if anyone else had caught it...
 

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-04-2008, 03:21 AM:
 
What really bothers me is the lack of communication. If not for Film Tech, I probably wouldn't have known about the locks until my print arrived Wednesday evening. I didn't receive an email or a fax from Deluxe about the locks. Aside from the lack of communication, it wasn't really any different from a regular delivery of a Technicolor print.

The one thing that does concern me when we don't get the print at least one day before the opening (especially for a Friday opening), is that there is little opportunity to get a replacement reel ordered before the weekend if it's needed. With Matrix Reloaded, we had a reel that almost went black for about 30 seconds and we weren't able to get the replacement reel until the second day of the run (seems like that would have been Friday morning).
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-04-2008, 06:00 AM:
 
John, I am really not making an argument that studios shouldn't do everything they can to stop people from stealing from them. They should. I am just pointing out that some of their ideas aren't not too bright and, how shall we say....less than effective. Locks on prints being one of them. Trailers telling my good patrons who have PAID and admission to a movie, that the theatre is potentially full of evil, thieving pirates who are willing to take the food out of the mouths of a lighting gaffer's children, is another.

Believe me, I sympathize with the studios as do you. I would be the first to call the cops if I caught anyone caming off my screen. I guess what I can't stomach, and which you obviously hear it come out in my posts, is the MPAAs continuous PR barrage of pronouncements about the billions of dollars they loose to pirates and then invariably in the same breath, they point fingers at exhibition as the reason. They either directly or indirectly let it be known that it is the THEATRES and those pirates aiming their cams at screens all over the country that cost them these billions. I find this disingenuous and much more obnoxious than the questionable legitimacy of their monetary loss assessment, which, to me, admittedly, sounds like numbers pulled out of their asses.

But, you are right....as you say, I am not privy to any inside workings of the studios' accounting departments, but again, as dubious as those numbers sound, that is not what irks me (all businesses spin the numbers to their advantage). My big complaint is that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that at least a very big portion of those lost nebulous billions are not entirely the fault of theatres and exhibition personnel who are for the most part decent and honest people and who don't want to see the entire industry -- the studios AND exhibition -- hurt by the bootleggers. It is pretty clear even to a non-studio outsider that it is the studio side where these pristine copies originate.

Yet you rarely hear pronouncements about the dishonest people in the studios' own house that are in one way or another supplying pristine, master quality copies which you and I both know are certainly worth much more in the world of piracy than off- screen copies.

Bet there are no locks on the editing computers. Academy screener copies float around all the time. I think I may have mentioned that at a gathering of some industry people who were working on a major release, the title of which I won't post here for obvious reasons, one of the members of the editing team had his laptop; he asked if we wanted to see the film he was working on. He opened the laptop and WITHOUT SO MUCH AS ENTERING A PASSWORD, played this soon to be released BO hit movie. It was nearly complet except for some of the music cues were not in the right place. Other than that, if someone other than my very honest friend had gotten a hold of his laptop, they would have had a very lucrative, marketable bootleg. And putting my ignorance of bootleg economic aside, I will bet THAT copy would be allot more damaging economically to the studio than anyone videotaping off a movie screen. Yet, the studios always seem to put their efforts on only one side of the isle. To me, that's offensive and deserving of righteous scorn.
 

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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 05-04-2008, 06:43 AM:
 
When I was running an independent theatre in Australia against the Major chain BCC. We were doing better business then them so they got even by holding our print of ''Lord of the rings''(the final film) untill the morning of our opening screening. We had a full house, and had to make up the first two reels to the platter to get started and then stop the show after the first two reels and thread up again. A few wanted refunds --not to mention it did spoil the show a bit,The antics the majors got up to to interfere with my business could fill a very entertaining book or even a movie.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-04-2008, 07:19 AM:
 
Frank, where the heck do you get the idea that the studios "seem to put their efforts on only one side of the [aisle]"?

It is simply untrue.

They have put lots of effort into dealing with leaked copies from inside. And I think they have also been very successful. I don't follow this very closely so I cannot cite hard evidence to you, but it is my understanding that the fraction of pirated films available prior to their first-run debut has dropped by a huge amount. My sense is two orders of magnitude, like around 100 more rare.

(I also don't think it is a good idea to draw broad conclusions from the one example you witnessed. I don't think it is indicative, and how sure are you that you saw what you thought you saw? My laptop has a fingerprint reader, it can be quite subtle. Also a timeout, so it may not prompt me for a password if I've used it sufficiently recently.)

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-04-2008, 10:16 AM:
 
I would have more sympathy for the film distributors if they would stop making outrageous claims about the losses that they supposedly suffer due to piracy. Whenever figures are quoted, they always seem to be based on the assumption that every pirated copy of a particular film results in a lost ticket sale. This is clearly untrue.

Does the existence of pirated copies of movies result in some lost ticket sales? Probably so.

Is this loss significant? Maybe. I don't know, but I can confidently say that the loss is far lower than what the MPAA and friends would want people to believe.

If the anti-piracy groups would be a bit more realistic about their claims and base them on actual studies and not numbers pulled from thin air, I would be more sympathetic to their needs.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-04-2008, 11:21 AM:
 
By the way, Justin, if you're really concerned, why not call up DFS (800-734-3969) and ask why you didn't get the fax? Maybe your theatre's fax number isn't in their database and it is an easy fix?

Scott, I guess that's true, but as I look at it, the MPAA and studios are big companies, and they have a big marketting division that does its best to promote the message "piracy is bad and costs us money." That they are somewhat imprecise on the details and choose to use the biggest estimates they can for their losses? Well, that's what marketing people do. They try to paint the biggest sharpest most compelling and most convincing argument that they can.

I can just imagine a meeting with studio CEO and a marketing vice president:

CEO: What are you doing to help get the message out about piracy?
MVP: We're telling people how much we think we're losing.
CEO: OK, so you're telling people the worst-case estimate?
MVP: Well, we think we're losing somewhere between $5 billion a year, and 5 cents a year. We're really not sure which, so we've decided to tell the customers that piracy is costing us only $5.00/year. Are you OK with that?
...

On the other hand, I do continue to wonder, especially for small arthouse movies, whether they actually WANT them to be pirated. For a movie like, say, In Bruges, do you suppose that the increased word-of-mouth from a pirated version might actually translate into higher box-office take and DVD sales? I don't know, but it's at least conceivable. I always wonder about it when the studios send security dudes with night-vision goggles to some advance screenings, but not others...

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-04-2008, 01:22 PM:
 

quote: Frank Angel

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you rarely hear pronouncements about the dishonest people in the studios' own house that are in one way or another supplying pristine, master quality copies which you and I both know are certainly worth much more in the world of piracy than off- screen copies.

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I thought this was an Iron Man thread, but...It wouldn't do much good for a studio to run a trailer in theatres telling people about all the piracy that originates from studio screeners. The trailers are simply to inform audiences that pirated movies are bad, and that some of it does happen in auditoriums. The intent is just as much to discourage people from buying bogus movies as it is to catch camcorders.

We get an emailed spreadsheet from NATO every month that lists all the instances of camcorder piracy that are stopped at theatres...it's a pretty good long list every month. I think the camcorder problem is more serious than many of us here would like to believe.
 

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Posted by Derrick Huggins (Member # 4670) on 05-04-2008, 01:38 PM:
 
well one good thing.. i needed a new locks for my shed and gate..so thank you paramount for the free locks we dont have to return them right?>
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 05-04-2008, 01:45 PM:
 
There is allegedly a sub-run theatre that has a Transformer's lock somewhere.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-04-2008, 01:49 PM:
 

quote: Justin Hamaker

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The one thing that does concern me when we don't get the print at least one day before the opening (especially for a Friday opening), is that there is little opportunity to get a replacement reel ordered before the weekend if it's needed. With Matrix Reloaded, we had a reel that almost went black for about 30 seconds and we weren't able to get the replacement reel until the second day of the run (seems like that would have been Friday morning).

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quote: Derrick Huggins

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well one good thing.. i needed a new locks for my shed and gate

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But I know your code...


 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-04-2008, 04:32 PM:
 
John, the local depot manager has been trying to do what he can regarding not sending us screener prints, and that is VERY much appreciated. However Deluxe out in LA is sometimes assigning them to us because we are a "will call" account. I find that reasoning ridiculous because when they have to overnight out a print from another depot direct to a theater, what difference does it make? So what they end up doing is punishing an entire chain that is on a will call account and making it extremely difficult for us to get the prints assembled in time. After all, many of my staff is still in college and we do not run shows during the weekday morning/afternoons. Other theaters like an AMC that DO run shows all day long could have easily dealt with it. Likewise if they are (for example) 10 prints short, they should've shorted us one, Cinemark two, AMC two, some small chain one, Regal two, etc rather than slamming it all onto one small group. Plus we are about the only theaters that actually return the prints in lab new condition too.

And before anyone posts up some lame "maybe they think you are a bootlegging theater", from a security standpoint it is just impossible for a customer to bootleg a movie since there are wait staff that are in each auditorium constantly monitoring the customers throughout the show. No other theater chain can boast that. Also nobody can operate the projection except for a very small group of projectionists. Not even someone with experience could make it run, because they would have to have certain keys and such to "unlock" the equipment so it could run. Even if a projectionist tried to run a movie in the middle of the night, he couldn't get away with it because every single button that is pushed in the buildings 24/7 are logged. Better security does not exist anywhere.
 

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Posted by Louis Belloisy (Member # 3836) on 05-05-2008, 02:55 PM:
 
So much for the tight security. I understand that they are already selling them on the streets. It seems that in Manhattan there are stands set up selling the movie, with laptops to show the movies.

Louis
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-05-2008, 05:30 PM:
 
Louis, selling on the streets happens hours after a copy gets on the Internet, and that happens after it opens in any reasonable number of theatres. The security we're discussing is in advance of the movie's release.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-06-2008, 04:35 AM:
 
Coming home tonite I was listening to WCBS News radio in NY and here comes a report that Mr. Cuomo, our Attorney General, is going to institute stiffer laws to combat movie pirating (how this has become a state issue when it clearly is a Federal crime is the big question, but who cares, it got him air time, which is what 80% of politics is all about). And the report says he was in consulting with the MPAA....who would have guessed.

They played a sound bite of him saying how it hurts the New York film industry and he is going to seek jail time for the pirateers. Good so far. Then he says, "When movies are pirated in movie theatres and wind up on the internet and find their way as bootlegs copies in video rental stores, it is a serious threat to New York jobs." That certainly sounds to me like a very lopsided and stilted take on movie piracy.

quote: John Hawkinson

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Frank, where the heck do you get the idea that the studios "seem to put their efforts on only one side of the [aisle]"?

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quote: Frank Angel

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Precisely when I hear things like this, John. And in fact, that's all I've ever heard whenever there is any public piece on movie piracy. I've never once heard media talk about theft of movie tiles from the studio labs, or careless people in Hollywood having copies made so they can show off to their friends at wine and cheese and coke parties.

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1) Just because you hear someone say that pirating in theaters is bad doesn't mean they're doing nothing else. hint: they can work from that angle silently. Like you might not hear on the news about a guy planning to set up a way to steal credit card numbers because the guy got fired and arrested before anything actually happened.

2) Saying that you've heard the whole story because you've heard everything the media cover doesn't magically make the media's coverage suddenly become the whole story.

Furthermore, there have been cases of the media covering stories about piracy outside theaters. Wasn't it Transformers where they had a pristine copy available online that the studios said had evidence that it wasn't from a theater or a DVD screener?
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-06-2008, 10:37 AM:
 
Media stories about pirating from movie theaters is something most people can understand and relate to. I mean they made an episode of Seinfeld around that topic. OTOH, hardly anyone knows what "screener" DVDs are so the media isn't going to talk about that angle much. Doesn't mean there's not a concerted effort to thwart piracy from that front too. If you're in the exhibition business, all you're really gonna hear about is the antipiracy efforts aimed at you in particular.

The analogy to theft in the retail business doesn't really hold up either. I mean every major retailer has those detector things you have to walk through to enter and leave, and everyone knows what they are. Some of them have signs saying they proscecute shoplifters to the full extent of the law blah blah.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-06-2008, 10:56 AM:
 
Frank says, "I've never once heard media talk about theft of movie tiles from the studio labs, or careless people in Hollywood having copies made so they can show off to their friends at wine and cheese and coke parties."

Then you haven't been paying attention. Try doing a search for Carmine Caridi. Or look at this New York Times article.

But frankly, the studios are not really interested in talking about their anti-piracy methods. (It is not in their interest to do so.) We talk about the exhibition-related ones here, because we're exhibitors and we know something about exhibition (though probably the studios would rather we didn't). Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-06-2008, 11:07 AM:
 
NY Piracy Protection Act

NY Piracy Protection Act no panacea for P2P problems
By Nate Anderson | Published: May 05, 2008 - 10:37PM CT

When the director of a recent feature film wanted to get some insight into how piracy was affecting his product, he asked one of our staffers to troll the murkier backwaters of the Internet to see 1) if his film was available, 2) whether it had come from the hand-delivered, always-guarded screener DVDs or from camcorders, and 3) what the quality was like. It didn't take long to find the film, a poor camcorded job complete with heads in the picture and stereo sound. The director was philosophical. "Well, at least they didn't get it from the DVDs," he said.

The quality difference between a screener DVD and a film taped directly off the screen in a local cineplex is huge. Unless you like head shots and crowd noise in your films, camcorded films in no way approximate the experience of watching a legal version in the theater or on the DVD player. Still, according to MPAA boss Dan Glickman, these camcorder versions form the basis for 90 percent of all street and Internet piracy. What's more, half of all Hollywood camcorder rips take place in New York, according to the always-reliable industry reports. That's why Glickman, NBC Universal boss Jeff Zucker, and actress/writer Tina Fey were all on hand today to promote a new state bill called the Piracy Protection Act.

Sure, it's a horrible name (no one realized that it sounds like a bill to protect piracy?), but it's yet another in New York's string of attempts to boost the movie and TV businesses that work there. The PPA would make illegal recording a misdemeanor, rather than just a fineable offense. First-time offenders could spend up to a year in jail and face a $1,000 fine. Repeat offenders would be charged as felons. According to New York's Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo, the moves are designed to crack down on "illegal crime syndicates" that profit from the making and distribution of illegal recordings.

In addition, the law would set up a Special Assistant Attorney General charged with coordinating state and local efforts against film piracy. Befitting the emphasis on organized crime, the new assistant will work with New York's Organized Crime Task Force.

"New York has become the hub for a criminal network dedicated to film piracy," said Attorney General Cuomo at a press conference announcing the new bill. "The wide distribution of pirated films originating from New York costs our state vital economic resources, including thousands of jobs and millions of dollars in tax revenue. We are all paying a price for the leniency given to this type of organized crime, and I will not let it continue on my watch."

The announcement was backed by a host of media and political insiders. Tina Fey, who both acts in and writes for 30 Rock on NBC, reminded listeners that "when you buy a DVD, you should not be able to see the heads of people watching it in a movie theater at the bottom of the screen." The Senate Majority Leader, Joseph L. Bruno, said, "When someone participates in multimedia piracy, they are stealing from artists and hurting the entertainment industry that is such a large part of New York's economy." (Ed. note: "Multimedia piracy"? Are dial-up connections and double-speed CD-ROM drives involved?)

There's certainly nothing to defend about the practice of making camcorder rips, so more power to New York if the state can put a dent in the practice and cut off its links to organized crime. If organized crime is really "organized," though, it will no doubt just outsource its ripping operations to states and countries where penalties are less and enforcement is lax.

The MPAA, though, is out to get pirates wherever they travel. John Malcolm, who heads the group's antipiracy operations, recently told us that the MPAA operates in more than 50 countries. While the group hopes to shut down the key sources of camcorder rips, it also expends significant energy and resources going after burning labs in China, Russia, and Malaysia. With the move to Internet piracy, though, everything gets harder: a single film rip from DVD or camcorder plus a BitTorrent client can bypass even sophisticated antipiracy operations.

That's why maintaining tight control on screener DVDs and on the staff at replication facilities is so crucial; camcorder rips might be hard to control, might be easy to do, and might prove easy to find, but the quality is fairly dire. While they might suffice for those too cheap to buy or rent a film anyway, such rips aren't of much use to anyone who has invested more than a couple hundred bucks in an entertainment center.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-06-2008, 12:30 PM:
 
OK, that about sez it all. And I'll leave it at this -- most people are not doing searches on the internet to fully understand the phenomenon; they gets most of their information from news reports on radio and TV. The point being, if you ask the average Joe where movie piracy comes from, he's going to say from the guy in the theatre with the cam. And that's just wrong.

The general public has been left with the impression that 90% of this criminal activity comes from dishonest theatre personnel, either directly by projectionists or others in the theatre doing nefarious deeds after hours or by lax and lenient theatre owners simply allowing people with cams to do it under their watch. That's the impression the MPAA has promoted and wants the public to have. According to MPAA boss Dan Glickman, these camcorder versions form the basis for 90 percent of all street and Internet piracy. There it is from the horse's mouth. And that distortion has been promulgated long before Glickman's reign; he's just carrying that distorted flag.

And sure, it's not in the studio's interest to trumpet the leaks in their own system, and I understand that -- but I don't at all appreciate it because it is at our expense. It's accusatory and what's worse it's just not true, yet the MPAA has been on a campaign to promote this distortion for years....and it's worked. How many of us here who work in theatres our entire careers, have EVER seen anyone screen ripping? A handful at most? I never have. I would bet, though, that the majority of the public if asked if they would spend money to see a theatre rip "with people's heads in the picture" and that horrid sound would say definately not. Off-screen copies are simply not where the big money comes from. Organized crime is not pressing hundreds of thousands of copies of nearly unwatchable off-screen rips; they are getting the real deal because that's were the money is.

I ran into a street vendor in Brooklyn had his wares out on the sidewalk and who could tell you exactly which of his copies were "theatre versions" and "clean versions." And I can tell you I had him go thru more than a dozen and they were MOSTLY "clean" copies. He sold those for twice the price. There were two titles which had just opened and all he had were off screen copies, BUT he confidently said that if I came back in two days he would have clean copies. The MAJORITY of his ill-gotten product were "clean," definately NOT MPAA's claim of 90%

There is a severe disconnect between what is really going on and what is being told to the public and it an affront to our profession and I am really quite surprised and a little disheartened that you guys seem to be not only OK with it, but are defending the MPAA's misinformation that makes your profession look like a bunch of shady fellons.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-06-2008, 12:43 PM:
 
What would the MPAA gain by lying, i.e. the 90% camcorder statement? I mean I don't understand why they would grossly inflate that number. I guess they could be over-emphasizing the camcorder aspect of the problem because exhibition is an area where MPAA has the least direct control.

If piracy takes place on just 0.5% of the 38,000 indoor US screens, whether theater personnel are involved or not, that's 190 screens. It's unlikely anyone here would see it or be a part of it, yet it's still a significant number of screens. That's just the US too.

Don't take it personal Frank, I just don't think you're being any more objective about the issue than, say, the MPAA, whom you're accusing of not being objective.
 

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Posted by Ben Goodman (Member # 4770) on 05-06-2008, 02:20 PM:
 
The only part of the MPAA's process that is not under their control is what happens once the movie hits the streets. If they have leaks with screener DVDs or lab problems, that's more likely to be their problem and something they can rectify. If they give out the 90% number to theatres and theatre owners, they instill a sense of fear in floor staff to be more vigilant about screen rips.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-06-2008, 02:26 PM:
 
Since when does saying that camcorders are involved in 90% of pirating mean that you and I are felons?
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-06-2008, 02:48 PM:
 
Maybe that was a typo...in this article from today's imdb.com it's 50%.

IMDB link

New York A Hotbed Of Pirates, A.G. Says

New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, claiming that 50 percent of all pirated movies are sold in New York, has chastised judges for being too lenient with those caught taping movies in theaters with camcorders. Cuomo told a New York news conference on Monday that first-time offenders should be fined as much as $1,000 and up to a year in jail and that repeat offenders should be charged with committing a felony. (Currently movie piracy is treated as a misdemeanor.) "We need a new law on the books of the state that punishes this act like the crime it is," Cuomo said. Also attending Cuomo's news conference were MPAA chief Dan Glickman, writer-comedienne Tina Fey, and NBC Universal President Jeff Zucker.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-06-2008, 03:16 PM:
 
Yah, they throw these numbers around like they are tossing salad.

quote: Chris Slycord

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Since when does saying that camcorders are involved in 90% of pirating mean that you and I are felons?

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Well, Chris, they are not saying that off-screen rips are off Hollywood private screening rooms, are they! They are saying they originate in MOVIE THEATRES where you and I are employed. That can only mean either we are doing it ourselves, or we are allowing crime to be committed in our places of business. And whether or not that is said directly, that's the impression the public has. Seinfeld couldn't have written an episode around it if it wasn't the general perception.

We used to have a saying in grade school, "Be careful, cause you never know which it is." Meaning, some nuns are mean and nasty and would wack you with a ruler as soon as look at you, and some nuns were gentle and kind. But when you are talking in the corridor and you saw a nun coming at you, having that foreknowledge -- be it right or wrong -- it always made you question, usually in panic, is this going to be one of the good nuns or one of the mean nuns?! Hence, "Be careful, cause you never know which it is."

I dislike the idea that the MPAA's two decade long anti-piracy campaign, starting with Valenti's assault on the pirating thieves who were using those new fangled VHS machines to record...er,"steal" movies off tv broadcasts and after loosing in court, then moving on to this constant single note tune about the theatres' role in Hollywood's multi-billion dollar losses....this has made it so that the general public looks at theatre personnel with that same kind of suspicion as we looked at that nun coming at us.

I don't like the idea that if I tell someone I run a theatre or am a projectionist, they're thinking, "Hmmmm, I wonder if this is one of those guys who makes bootleg copies of the movies in his theatre." Luckily I can tell them, "Not to worry, I only run OLD movies...they have already been pirated by the first run theatre projectionists."
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-06-2008, 03:56 PM:
 
"losing." "Loosing" is something altogether different.

A lot of piracy happens in theatres. It's not nice to hear, but its true.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-06-2008, 04:25 PM:
 
Frank,

When someone says "Lots of piracy happens in theaters" you assume that this really is intended to be "Lots of piracy happens in theaters and the exhibitors are actively helping."
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-06-2008, 09:59 PM:
 
Which brings us back full circle to the thread topic....

quote: Chris Slycord

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When someone says "Lots of piracy happens in theaters" you assume that this really is intended to be "Lots of piracy happens in theaters and the exhibitors are actively helping."

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quote: David Stambaugh

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What would the MPAA gain by lying, i.e. the 90% camcorder statement? I mean I don't understand why they would grossly inflate that number.

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Why? Because they want to get the exhibitors and the public paranoid about piracy at the theater level (camcorder copies) and tone down the studio's own fault as much as they can. That's why. I don't buy 90% for a second because last summer I was introduced to someone through a friend of a friend and he was commenting on how he was able to get almost any movie in a perfect copy before the release date through his internet sources. He was very much against camcorder transfers because of the quality and said he never bothered downloading those. He even had a bunch of movies he had downloaded on his video ipod he showed me and indeed these were NOT camcorder jobs. They were clearly some kind of DVD rip with a professional transfer.

90% my ass! 50% is at least a believable number, although I would like to see some facts to back that up by someone other than the MPAA.
 

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Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-07-2008, 01:21 AM:
 

quote: Frank Angel

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If theatres not actively helping, then if the MPAA numbers are even partially accurate and not just pulled out of it's collective arse, then theatres must be helping, at the very least, by culpable indifference to all these multitudes of off-screen rips.

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quote: Frank Angel

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And it just so happens that this particular bootleg of IRON MAN which got Cuomo on is high horse in the first place was a satellite transmission capture, NOT an off-screen copy

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quote: Rene Ferron

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As an example, that the movie 88 Minutes. A popular torrent site released a DVD quality on 27/02/2008 and the official release date for 88 Minutes was 18/04/2008. So how can this be ? there is no CAM version of it, just a strait DVD quality.

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