Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Print drops out of Dolby Digital at beginning

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-11-2008, 11:13 AM:

We're playing "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" because all you big city guys have all the "Iron Man" prints! [Big Grin]

Everything runs fine in digital right up through the end of the trailers, thru the Dolby Digital "train" tag, and then at the very beginning of the feature, you hear this loud "motorboating" type sound from the speakers for about 1/2 of a second and then it flops to analog and stays there for the whole movie, indicating "F" on the CP650.

I've remade the splice between tag and feature (even though it looked fine) and stood by watching the machine when it runs -- nothing seems or sounds amiss.

I think my next step will be to remove the Universal logo footage to give the feature a new 'starting point' and see if that works, unless anybody has some alternate ideas. (I would just remove a few frames before the logo starts, but some bonehead in a previous theatre cut off nearly all of the black before the image begins, so I'd rather have no logo at all than a chopped off one.)

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-11-2008, 01:30 PM:

There is such a thing as a bad reel. You could remove reel one while you are off screen and then run trailers then reel 2. If OK, then reel 1 is bad. Alternatively. reboot the CP-650 after reel 2 starts and see how it goes. Louis

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-11-2008, 02:04 PM:

Is there a way to reboot it mid-show and have the sound continue to play in "standby" mode?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-11-2008, 02:14 PM:

It will play in mono-bypass mode once you hit the front panel power button. (There is no volume adjustment for this, so hopefully your tech preset this.) The CP650 will probably keep you there for about a minute during the reboot process.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-11-2008, 03:42 PM:

was this a new or used print? If used the whole DD track could hae a scratch going through it.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-11-2008, 04:46 PM:

Am I wrong or the Bypass level of CP650 can be adjusted rotating the volume knob, even if the display does not indicate anything?

Of course the initial bypass level is set by the "bypass" trimpot on the front.

The only issue is that at the end of the reboot the 650 (at least my 2.2.5.0 release) will test the 6ch input and analog projector inputs, removing the sound for a second or two.

I think that even the worst splice in the world cannot force your CP in "F" more than half a second. I suppose that if other reels and trailers work properly, the SRD soundtrack at the beginning of the reel is faulty.

Marco

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-11-2008, 08:23 PM:

I suspect more that it is defective all the way through the entire print.
Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-11-2008, 10:34 PM:

It's a used print, but I don't see any visible scratches. I took a very close look at the first few feet of film and found some leftover gunk from an old lighting cue that I missed before...A little Film-guard took that off and it still is not playing in digital, but at least that stopped the wierd motorboat sound at the very beginning.

We have a pretty good crowd tonight so I'm not going to try rebooting the machine mid-show, but will try it during the end credits and see if it works and how it behaves. If that works, I'll do it when reel 2 begins tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks for the help guys.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-12-2008, 06:26 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I don't see any visible scratches.

A few years ago I had a new print come back from the Toronto Film Festival. Other than being plattered it looked in good shape. Well less than a minute into it it popped into SR from SRD for the rest of the show. (I'm change-over house) After reel one got off the number one machine I took it over to the bench and with a photo lupe looked at the SRD track. It had a very small nicks on the track, but to the regular eye it look fine. The rest of the film reels were damaged.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-12-2008, 07:25 AM:

The SRD decoding can be performed with an heavy scratch if the scratch is at the center of the SRD square. If there is, say, a very very small scratch on the edge of the SRD square (that damages the corners of the SRD data) the processor will probably drop to analog.

I had prints with so very small damages, but in the wrong place, that faults continuously. Others with heavy scratches at the center of the SRD data block that just read high but does not faults.

Hope this can help.

Marco

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-12-2008, 08:30 AM:

I'm still sticking to a completely bad srd track on this print. If the previews play fine in digital then the print has to be bad.

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-12-2008, 09:36 AM:

I think Mark is right -- it's the whole print. I rebooted the machine during the end credits last night and it went right back to analog again.

I'll get out the ol' magnifying glass tonight and see if I can see anything.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-12-2008, 10:05 AM:

I would definately order a new print, and tell them that you recieved the print like this.

Posted by Alban Birch (Member # 4121) on 05-12-2008, 11:42 AM:

I once got a print where the SRD-Track was badly aligned. Since it was the only Print playing in SRD and the rest in DTS, I changed the lateral Position of the CCD on my Cat.700. And voila, it played with a nice 3-4, had to realign everything though for the following Week.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-12-2008, 12:12 PM:

quote:
order a new print,

I would, except we are only booked thru Wednesday, and the new print wouldn't arrive until then! I could "overnight" it here for tomorrow, but that would likely cost more than we will gross for the two days put together.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-12-2008, 03:22 PM:

You need to at least let them know this print will not play in SRD, so at least they can flag it as a dts only print.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-12-2008, 03:25 PM:

Yes, a note is already in the can.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-12-2008, 03:37 PM:

the note in the can will have no effect. I've received prints from TES and others with notes about sound and other problems, the ship them anyway.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-12-2008, 03:52 PM:

Maybe I should send the cans back empty, with a note "This print will not play in all sound formats, therefore it has been removed from circulation"

That would get their attention! [evil]

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 05-12-2008, 04:12 PM:

Agreed, Mike. I think the extent of the TES "inspection" is to slap on a new "ship to" label, and out the door it goes. Your note *will* at least serve to alert some future recipient that the SR.D is bad, and early enough in the booking for them to order DTS discs. Maybe. At least you tried!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-12-2008, 05:12 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Maybe I should send the cans back empty, with a note "This print will not play in all sound formats, therefore it has been removed from circulation"

Best solution EVER for dealing with damaged film!!!

Take a Sharpie and mark "shit print - no SRD sound" all over the permanent labels on the cans. If you REALLY want to make sure it gets noticed, blacken out their barcodes (but make sure you leave the print number clean so they can credit the print to your theater). Without the barcode they will have to manually input it and at that point they can't possibly miss the note.

Make sure to word it with the word "shit print" in there. Naughty language tends to get more people's attention other than simply writing "no SRD". Also write that on a big piece of tape that holds every reel down. TES has to unravel the leaders and ensure it is the correct print before they ship to the next engagement.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-12-2008, 07:23 PM:

quote: Marco Giustini
Am I wrong or the Bypass level of CP650 can be adjusted rotating the volume knob, even if the display does not indicate anything?

No, you are not wrong. You can adjust output level in bypass via the volume knob on the CP-650.

Our machines sometimes can take a while (by a while I mean a minute maybe) to come good when it finds meaty SRD track after a prolonged 'F' period...but they always comes good. As you've already said, it must be the print. Your SR sounds OK though, right?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-12-2008, 08:30 PM:

Yes, SR sounds good.

I think I found the problem...there is a very faint scuff along one side of the SR-D soundtrack going all the way through the print, covering about 1/3 of the soundtrack. It can't be seen looking directly at the film, but when I put a flashlight BEHIND the film, it showed up clear as day.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-13-2008, 08:48 AM:

That scratch will do it and knock your SRD track out. That's what I had.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-13-2008, 05:01 PM:

A scuff would definately do it. Probably someone with a worn pad roller or worn gate part.

Mark

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 05-14-2008, 07:18 AM:

You have just been lucky so far Mike, Unlike a $50 toaster, prints don't come with a warranty.

We sacrifice a virgin if we get a used Dolby Digital track that works.

I wish that film prints were available from Seconds World where you'd get a huge discount if the itam was scratched.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-14-2008, 02:55 PM:

You could always request a Randwick print... [Wink]