Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Need some input on using a Goldberg reel...

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-13-2008, 10:56 PM:

I just received a Goldberg reel and I'm not clear on a couple things from reading the instructions.

When building up onto the reel, do I want to have one of those foam spacers between the reel and the film? What about the white band with the Velcro closures.

When I load it on the platter, how am I supposed to get the top flange off. Is there a trick to centering the film or do I just have to eyeball it?

Brad mentioned sliding the bottom reel off so the reel can be reused right away. Did you take the foam pads off the outside of the reel? Aside from that, I can see how this would work.

Other than that, any other comments that would be useful?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-13-2008, 11:03 PM:

I never use the foam and such that come with the reel, BUT if you wind it too tight directly onto the hub, you will never get that hub out. You will have to do some experimentation with your particular rewind table to find out what your clutch setting should be set at. The first few times you use it you should wrap the foam around the reel hub and then start winding the film around that. This way once the print is on the platter, you can remove the foam and hub easily.

Once you have the print built, with it standing on edge next to the platter, twist the locking screw so that the bottom flange of the reel is free from the hub. Now twist that hub a few inches and place it back up against the print, but not latched to the hub. With the assistance of another person, pinch that flange against the film roll so that the two of you are pinching the two flanges together (with the film in the middle), lift and set on the platter. Then you can remove the top flange and hub and payout the movie off of the bottom flange. Once you do this a couple of times you will be able to see how you can do other tricks so you only need one of these per booth complex.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-14-2008, 12:05 PM:

Are these still available? I'd like to pick one up but wasn't able to find a supplier when I did a quick search online. Who sells them, and what is the approximate price? Whatever they cost, I they seem to be worth the investment. Thanks

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-14-2008, 12:49 PM:

Jim,

http://www.rsem.com/equipment-details.asp?partnum=5810001

They're selling it for $441.76

And a smaller one for just under $300
http://www.rsem.com/equipment-details.asp?partnum=5810004

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-14-2008, 04:27 PM:

Order it without the stupid "carrying case" and they are noticeably cheaper.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-21-2008, 09:24 PM:

I used the Goldberg reel for the first time today to build up Indiana Jones. I'm blown away by how fast it went. Other than having two reels that were tails out, plus the trailers, it was very simple. I'm definitely going to be using a foam strip to make sure I can get the center out.

The one issue that concerns me is static. I got several very big jolts. I'll have to see if I can find an old static brush I can rig up on the reel while I'm building up.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 05-21-2008, 09:41 PM:

How did you get static on build-up? Were you hand-inspecting without grounding yourself? (Hand touching metal next to speed control on Kelmar table?)

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-21-2008, 10:52 PM:

I was inspecting as always and I was grounding myself. The only thing I can think is that since I wasn't touching the reel, there wasn't a ground between me and the reel. Then when I touched it to manually wind up the last bit I got a nice shock.

Posted by Emma Tomiak (Member # 1862) on 05-21-2008, 11:14 PM:

Let the reel brush up against you a little as you build. You may still get a shock, but it'll be nothing compared to what you've been getting.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-22-2008, 03:19 AM:

Using the foam strips that come with the platter reel is the cause of the static due to the uneven wind. Once you have built a FEW prints and figured out exactly where to set your feed reel clutch tension, build your prints without the foam directly onto the hub. Your problem will vanish.

Again, make sure you don't overdo the tension! Without the foam in between the film and the hub if you wind it too tight you won't be able to get the hub out.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-22-2008, 04:51 AM:

Thanks for the tips.

One thing I'm interested in trying is using two foam strips because that will give the right diameter to put a Christie centering ring in the print. Brad, I saw what you put about the static being cause by the foam strips. But I still want to try this out.

One foot note that I want to add. I normally wind all film onto the 6000' foot reels with the soundtrack out going over the top (I guess that would mean emulsion side in when the tale is on the outside). It didn't even occur to me that this causes the film to be wrapped opposite of how it feeds off the platter. As a result when I plopped the film on the platter with the soundtrack up, I discovered it was going the wrong way. Fortunately I discovered this as I was going to thread for a dry run so I had time to fix it. I had to carefully pull it off onto 6000's and then wind it back on as I normally would. But I got done with at least 45 minutes to spare before show time.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-22-2008, 04:54 AM:

Why not just flip it upside down (if you had help available)? Could have saved time. Oh well.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-22-2008, 05:17 AM:

I already had the hub out and there was a bulge in the print. I was afraid that flipping it would have made a bigger mess than just pulling it off.

I don't feel like it's a total waste because I did figure out a trick or two for dealing with prints that get off center after the ring is out or if I have to break down a print when the ring had been pulled out.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-22-2008, 01:50 PM:

The ring isn't that much smaller than the Christie rings. It should be able to pay that out just fine. I do it every week at all of my theaters, and I do not use the foam.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-22-2008, 03:20 PM:

The main thing I was thinking by using the centering ring was that I could use an upside down ring to help slide the print off the bottom flange of the reel so I can reuse it right away. It might not be necessary, but it seems less risky. It might also make it easier to get the print centered.

Brad, I hear what you're saying about these things not being necessary. But I'm trying to come up with procedures that will be workable for the other people who build film.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-03-2008, 01:40 PM:

Bump. After working with these for the first time this weekend, I will say that this is the _only_ way to run a film festival in a platter house or multiple platter houses.

Makeup and breakdown can easily be done at a central location (we are using an office space) with a rewind bench and features can safely be transported between theatres on platter reels, without risking damage from multiple makeups and breakdowns at different venues by different operators.

How does everyone secure the takeup side of the reel to the platter deck when taking up onto platter reels? Do the foam pads really hold it in place? We've been using Allen wrenches stuck through the holes in the ring/reel and the holes in the platter, but is this necessary?

Is it safe to make up directly from 2000' shipping reels to the platter reels? I didn't try this, due to fear of cinching due to multiple starts/stops in the makeup process.

Anyway, I don't see these as being a huge time-saver in a standard multiplex, except maybe in one that runs a _lot_ of film (10+ screens or lots of press screenings, etc.), but they are hugely useful for festivals that use only platter houses.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-03-2008, 06:12 PM:

Please, please don't break down from the platter reels. A platter's MUT will do a far superior job than a rewind bench will. (Edit, ok I forget some theaters have those shitty Strong and other equally shitty platters that break down film without any tension.)

When taking up to a platter reel, there is no need to worry about it slipping. It is heavy enough, even if the rubber feet get worn off. We do it all the time.

You should build straight from 2000' reels to the platter reel. Building to 6000' reels and then transferring that to the platter reels not only wastes time, but will not provide as even of a wind in regards to tension and could affect payout.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-03-2008, 07:12 PM:

Brad--you haven't seen these Xetron makeup tables. They sucked when they were new and they are now quite beat-up. Anything would be gentler on film than breaking down onto these.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-03-2008, 07:54 PM:

Justin

I use a crocodile patch (like this one) to connect the shaft of the film rewinder to one of the flange of the reel. Otherwise you'll see sparks from your hand! [Smile]

At least if you inspect the whole print like me.

I never tried winding without the foam.

Marco