Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Do you have suggestions for these random, annoying, problems

This is topic Do you have suggestions for these random, annoying, problems in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-31-2008, 02:55 AM:

These are some annoying little problems that I've mainly learned to deal with, but would like to actually fix.

On Christie AW3 platters, at the end of the show the film whips out of the rollers and wraps around the platter. It doesn't happen on every deck and it doesn't happen every time.

On the same platters, the film has a tendency to fall out of the rollers on the roller cluster while threading. It seems that the roller cluster isn't pivoting freely, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the pivot. This is with the green rollers and the green guides, rather than the metal guides with white pins.

On one AW3, the roller cluster doesn't slide freely up and down the bar. Can this bar get bent out of shape or develop a flair? It seems to mainly be around the point of the pins the cluster rests on. On occasion it's cause the cluster to rest about 1" above the pin causing the film to "stack" as it's taken up - mainly this is an issue with the projectionist paying attention to how the cluster is seated.

On Simplex 1050, the aperture plate kicks out slightly when the gate is closed. I have three of these machines and this happens on two of them with regularity.

On Century SA, the film gate doesn't always want to close that last millimeter on it's own. I've gotten in the habit of giving it an extra little twist after closing.

On a different Century SA, every once in a great while (like once a month) the automation won't kill the projector at the end of the show. The film will drop out, but the change-over dowser won't close and the lamp stays on. Usually lifting and dropping the fingers of the take-up side fail-safe will kill the projector.

[ 05-31-2008, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: Justin Hamaker ]

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 05-31-2008, 04:27 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
On Christie AW3 platters, at the end of the show the film whips out of the rollers and wraps around the platter. It doesn't happen on every deck and it doesn't happen every time.

It happens, I and I don't think there's really any solution to it.

quote: Justin Hamaker
the roller cluster doesn't slide freely up and down the bar.

Remove the slide - bar and cluster and clean both the bar and all areas of the cluster bracket that make contact with the bar. Don't use any lubricants. It doesn't normally get bent unless it's abused, and in that case, replace the slide bar.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-31-2008, 09:40 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
On Christie AW3 platters, at the end of the show the film whips out of the rollers and wraps around the platter. It doesn't happen on every deck and it doesn't happen every time.

It sounds to me like you need to have a qualified technician come in and adjust (or if needed replace) the LED/Photocell levels with a good multimeter and time these platters with a tachometer. What is most likely happeneing is your platters are out of time and running too fast and too jerky. When the print gets to the end the weight of film on the platter is dramatically less and is getting "thrown around" right before the end.

quote: Justin Hamaker
On the same platters, the film has a tendency to fall out of the rollers on the roller cluster while threading. It seems that the roller cluster isn't pivoting freely, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the pivot. This is with the green rollers and the green guides, rather than the metal guides with white pins.

Aligning your film path(s) may help as well as adjusting these roller assemblies. Unlike a "potts" style platter these rollers should be positioned properly and locked down.

quote: Justin Hamaker
On one AW3, the roller cluster doesn't slide freely up and down the bar. Can this bar get bent out of shape or develop a flair? It seems to mainly be around the point of the pins the cluster rests on. On occasion it's cause the cluster to rest about 1" above the pin causing the film to "stack" as it's taken up - mainly this is an issue with the projectionist paying attention to how the cluster is seated.

You can remove the bar and check that is not warped. Give it a good cleaning and DO NOT put any wd40 or lubrication on it, it will just attrct dirt and make your problem worse. You can use a peice of emery cloth to lightly remove any tiny burrs.

quote: Justin Hamaker
On Simplex 1050, the aperture plate kicks out slightly when the gate is closed. I have three of these machines and this happens on two of them with regularity.

If the machine was properly set before the plate was filed the plate should slide all the way in and click in. it is possible that it was set and the plate was filed correctly and was just disturbed sometime afterwards. There is a stop pin that stops the plate from moving in too far. This needs to be adjusted so that the plate slides all the way in and clicks into place. To remove the plate in this machine you should have to push it back towards the lamphouse before you slide it out. It should not be able to come out on it's own. If after adjusting it your image is not centered right, or your cropping the picture you are going to need to order new plates and have them recut.

quote: Justin Hamaker
On Century SA, the film gate doesn't always want to close that last millimeter on it's own. I've gotten in the habit of giving it an extra little twist after closing.

I am not sure how to explain this but ill try... The smaller barrel that moves in and out with in the larger barrel that the gate is attatched to often gets dirty and gummed up. Especially if someone tries to lubricate it. You should try giving it a really good cleaning while working the sliding mechanism in and out to get all the crud out from inside the larger barrel.

quote: Justin Hamaker
On a different Century SA, every once in a great while (like once a month) the automation won't kill the projector at the end of the show. The film will drop out, but the change-over dowser won't close and the lamp stays on. Usually lifting and dropping the fingers of the take-up side fail-safe will kill the projector.

What kind of automation and failsafe is in this house? We need more information. The type of projector is really irrelevant in this particular situation.

[ 05-31-2008, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Sean McKinnon ]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-31-2008, 11:04 AM:

I would recommend to the original poster that you re-title this thread to refer to the platter issue (since that's what's getting the most attention), and start a new thread regarding each of the other issues. "Teaser" titles are not allowed - you have to let the reader know what the thread is about in your title.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-31-2008, 12:11 PM:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Simplex 1050, the aperture plate kicks out slightly when the gate is closed. I have three of these machines and this happens on two of them with regularity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the machine was properly set before the plate was filed the plate should slide all the way in and click in. it is possible that it was set and the plate was filed correctly and was just disturbed sometime afterwards. There is a stop pin that stops the plate from moving in too far. This needs to be adjusted so that the plate slides all the way in and clicks into place. To remove the plate in this machine you should have to push it back towards the lamphouse before you slide it out. It should not be able to come out on it's own. If after adjusting it your image is not centered right, or your cropping the picture you are going to need to order new plates and have them recut.

Just to clarify this one are you using the 1050 with a single barrel lens or are you using a lens turret with the aperture plate that slides in and out.

quote:
quote: Justin Hamaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Christie AW3 platters, at the end of the show the film whips out of the rollers and wraps around the platter. It doesn't happen on every deck and it doesn't happen every time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds to me like you need to have a qualified technician come in and adjust (or if needed replace) the LED/Photocell levels with a good multimeter and time these platters with a tachometer. What is most likely happeneing is your platters are out of time and running too fast and too jerky. When the print gets to the end the weight of film on the platter is dramatically less and is getting "thrown around" right before the end.

The way I read this is he is referring to when the film drops the return arm whips the film back and through that action the film comes out of the rollers and works its way around the platter deck.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-31-2008, 01:02 PM:

The 1050 has a lens turret, but a single aperture plate for each format. Do the 1050's have an option for a sliding aperture plate like the Millenniums?

Yes, I'm referring to when the film drops, the return arm whips back and the film comes out of the rollers. The biggest reason why this one concerns me is the potential for major problems if it happens while a movie is being wound onto the platter.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-31-2008, 02:03 PM:

I thought he was saying that near the end the tail slides off and get wrapped around the axle. My apologies.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-31-2008, 03:24 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
The 1050 has a lens turret, but a single aperture plate for each format. Do the 1050's have an option for a sliding aperture plate like the Millenniums?

Depends, Is your turret a manual one or electronic. The electronic turrets like the TU2000 has a relay board that controls both the turret swing and rotation and the aperture. The later TU model don't have the swing function. Just the rotation and aperture control.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-31-2008, 04:35 PM:

Our 1050s have manual turrets.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 06-02-2008, 04:14 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
at the end of the show the film whips out of the rollers and wraps around the platter.

we started having this issue occasionally once we got upgraded to the newer green keepers. it's especially annoying in a tight booth where you can't walk around the platter. and i never have a print winding on as the film that's showing is getting ready to end.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-02-2008, 12:41 PM:

On the 1050 slide aperture plate, I've seen some that will take the plate out, put a very light slight bend in it so that when it slides back and forth, this bend will keep it in position and not eventually slide out of position.

...another 'projectionist' trick ...

-Monte