Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: IJ4 Focus on Reel 1

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Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 06-07-2008, 09:12 PM:

Hello All,

Long time reader, first (or so) time poster.

I'm finishing week three of IJ4 this week and have had an interesting focus problem on and off the whole run.

Reel one, including the attached trailers, goes in and out of focus randomly. It is as if the film is bending in the gate.

Today's matinee it was pretty good. Tonight's show it was pretty bad.

I've thought of gunk on the film (cleaned *everything* four times!), there's a roller guide that seems to stick sometimes but when I manually spin it the in/out still happens. Warn out gate? Hmmm, but the rest of the film looks good. Or...?

Until today the 1->2 splice brought an end to the issue with the remainder of the film being just fine. Then today the first 60 or 90 seconds of reel 2 showed evidence of the issue! I'm running out of hair to pull on this one and thought I'd better look for advice from the good guys!

Any ideas? I've not seen anybody else post here about it, but has anyone had issues like this with IJ4? When I read about some of the other issues with prints of this title and Narnia I really got to wondering if maybe it wasn't actually *my* fault!

Simplex x-l projector, btw.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-07-2008, 09:35 PM:

Yep...remove the trap (need a slotted screwdriver)...locate the lateral guide roller (the thing you have been spinning)...now force the gunk ridden/rusting apart (spread them) and apply oil to the middle of the roller shaft (that is now spaced a little apart...about 1/8" as well as the spring on the inboard side of the roller....work the oil in real good and make sure the roller springs back all on its own the moment you release it and it spreads will very little effort.

Now, add a drop oil to the pivots the roller spins upon. Work that in so it spins nice and freely.

Clean up the trap real nice (don't use Alcohol...just wipe it down real good). Reinstall it on the projector...IF YOU HAVE A FIRE DOUSER (round douser that rests right behind the aperture)PRESS THE DOUSER RESET BUTTON ON THE TOP OF THE PROJECTOR AND HOLD IT DOWN as you reinstall the trap and screw it back into place. Release the fire douser reset button and press it again a couple of times and convince yourself it is going up and down as you press/release the button.

I then predict the focus problem you described will be gone. What happens with lateral guide rollers that are not lubed to allow them to spring, as designed is that they return closed after the film leaves the gate/trap...the gate/trap cools down...you thread the next show...the film is pinched a bit and buckles which causes the focus problem.

The gate/trap heat up...the splice for R-2 goes in and the roller begrudingly opens up a bit and the film is no longer pinched.

Note too, lenses heat up...so the focus you have on the first snipe that runs through will not hold 5 minutes later. Many people wait until the feature starts to determine focus as this will allow the lens to heat up to operating temp.

Steve

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 06-07-2008, 09:59 PM:

Well would you look at me. No posts for five years now three in one night. I wish I knew more proper terminology...will soon, I'm sure.

Steve,

Thanks! I will try that tonight. Although I poked at those rollers (if we're talking about the same metal rollers on the lamp side poking through just at the bottom of the framing window) with a plastic screwdriver during the show thusly and henceforthlyish spreading them apart to no avail.

I also nudged, gently the back of the bands and the short rails on top of the gate. Just wanted to see if I could 'budge' loose whatever might be getting nudged by the splice, if that's indeed what was happening.

I think you're onto something with the heat. And I'm also thinking things might be wearing out. I'm getting a dirty projector a lot faster than I used to. Perhaps with heat, print width for that reel, warn out parts in combination are getting me.

But I'll certainly get some oil in behind there as you describe. Thanks again!

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 06-07-2008, 10:09 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
PRESS THE DOUSER RESET BUTTON ON THE TOP OF THE PROJECTOR AND HOLD IT DOWN

On top of the simplex xl there are 2 round knobs, i know one adjust the fly wheel back and forth, would the one you're talking about be the smaller one? If it is I was always wondering what that was but always to afraid I'd screw something up by touching it.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-07-2008, 11:41 PM:

quote: Patrick Dunn
I know one adjust the fly wheel back and forth, would the one you're talking about be the smaller one?.

Actually, the one you know about is the knurled knob with adjusts the "fine tuning" on the shutter blade-to rid of the fine ghosting that occurs with gear driven shutter drive assemblies.

The other one is the push button that pushes up the fire dowser when you replace the trap on an XL.

One small mod was that a lot of XL's had the fire dowser removed, but the push button was left up there.

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 06-08-2008, 06:25 PM:

Well, no dice on the oil the roller guides trick. Unfortunately.

Two shows today and each of 'em started with the focus in/out the instant the green bar came on the screen for the attached trailers. None of the trailers in front of those (Panda/Eagle Eye combo) had any focusing issues.

Then the last time I noticed the focusing was during the scene in the Nuke test town when he jumps the fence as the car drives by. That's a ways into reel two. But then it just stops. Goes away. Starts fast, stops fast. Intermittent. I hate it.

I was able to reduce the focus delta, if you will, by holding the gate open ever so slightly. This was a satisfactory work around for my situation, although doing it for the length of the reel is a pain in the wazoo. I don't have any more shows of this title, so I'm not sure I'll ever solve this problem before I die. My gate has an adjustment for how tightly it is allowed to close, perhaps I should use it....

I also briefly and gingerly held the edge of a piece of metal against the very edge of the print just before it fed into the top roller. I wanted to see if I'd be able to feel any bumps that my fingers couldn't feel. I did feel some, but I couldn't positively correlate them with the focus in/out problem.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-09-2008, 03:19 AM:

K, here's a dumb one: are the elements (both, in the backup assembly and the front attachment) inside of each section loose?

Does your lens have a rattling sound when you handle it?

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 06-09-2008, 03:26 AM:

Have you tried switching the print to your other auditorium?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-09-2008, 06:57 PM:

Is it possible that you have a lamp focus issue causingthe film to pop when the splice goes through

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 06-20-2008, 09:46 PM:

Just to resolve this...

It was not an equipment issue. And I'm a dumbass for not finding the problem sooner than I did.

There was crap on the film. The entire trailer combo (Panda and Eagle Eye) and R1. Only on the one edge, about half the width of the perfs.

It was waxy. Not gooey, like from tape or anything. I have no idea where it came from. I ran the film for one show on my second screen and it didn't cause a problem.

Anyway, thanks to all for your suggestions. Next time I hope my head doesn't stay up my ass for quite as long.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-21-2008, 01:25 PM:

Greg,
Will be in Buffalo the third week of July.
Mark