Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Main chains & film guard

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Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 04-07-2008, 02:35 AM:

Does anyone know AMC's policy on using FilmGuard? I'm told we cant, but yet it is an approved item to order through our distributor + there are some old bottles lurking around in my booth.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-07-2008, 02:38 AM:

Order it and see what happens.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-07-2008, 03:29 AM:

Sounds like a projectionist who doesn't want to put forth any extra effort in the booth (a "its good enough" attitude), or someone who is in a position who can benefit monetarily (a manager who gets a bonus depending on how cheaply they run their theater) told you that. Many AMCs use it.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-07-2008, 11:36 AM:

The official company stance is that it's use is discouraged.

That's what I was told at my old theater by multiple managers when I asked then at my new theater the booth manager confirmed that they aren't supposed to use it.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-07-2008, 11:52 AM:

Do they still have that braindead official policy of using silver paint pens to mark splices? [puke]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-07-2008, 12:35 PM:

Chris, again see above. If the company didn't want you to use it, it wouldn't be on the approved product list, plain and simple. Discouraged in my travels means somebody is trying to save money (for their own personal benefit via raise/bonus, or because they think they will look good to corporate) at the expense of the presentation.

Scott, I've not seen anyone use the paint pens at an AMC in forever. However show me an AMC that doesn't masking tape or tuck their leaders on breakdown and I will be amazed.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-07-2008, 01:06 PM:

AFAIK the stuff wasn't available at all through the website that all supplies were ordered from. But that was some time ago when someone had looked it up. Maybe something was wrong with that site at that time?

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-07-2008, 01:20 PM:

quote: Chris Slycord
when someone had looked it up

Unfortunately a lot managers would rather lie than;

1. Admit they were wrong.

2. Have to justify a bad decision.

3. Keep having to discuss something with a subordinate.

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 04-07-2008, 01:26 PM:

Brad, sorry to get OT, but what do you mean by masking tape their leaders on breakdown? If you are referring to using masking tape to hold the end of the head from coming free, what is preferable? I have seen reference to paper reel bands, but have never had a print come with them.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-07-2008, 01:29 PM:

Granted at the time the managers were having trouble finding parts for other projection equipment on that web interface so it could've just been that there was a glitch.

quote: Galen Murphy-Fahlgren
Brad, sorry to get OT, but what do you mean by masking tape their leaders on breakdown? If you are referring to using masking tape to hold the end of the head from coming free, what is preferable? I have seen reference to paper reel bands, but have never had a print come with them.

He's meaning that when you tear down a lot of people, instead of splicing the head/tail back on just use a piece of tape.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-07-2008, 03:47 PM:

Yup, the professional and proper way to reattach the leaders is with a single sided splice made with Neumade splicing tape. (Neumade tape can sit on the film for 10 years and still peel off without leaving any residue.)

Every AMC I have seen...and for that matter every theater with Strong equipment except for the Angelika Film Centers in Dallas, use a piece of masking tape to reattach the leaders *or* they tuck the leaders under not even reattaching them. I blame this mostly on the retarded design of the Strong MUT since there is no room to place a splicer, but also due to poor training.

The films are also wound sloppily and without proper tension, but that's another issue of the shitty Strong equipment. A good operator CAN overcome the issue if he actually cares about what he is doing, but it is more effort during breakdown to constantly apply backtension by hand and sadly few people do. They don't care about the next guy's presentation or the studio's property one bit...hence masking tape and sloppy breakdowns.

Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 04-08-2008, 08:02 PM:

In our AMC booth, all heads and tails are re-attached using a single-sided splice.

We use FilmGuard, and I have never a word of discouragement or anything about it being against policy. It would be very easy to make it impossible to order by removing it from the approved products list, but I order it on a regular basis.

The silver-paint marker is 'policy' but I have never seen how it is useful and we don't use it.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 04-08-2008, 08:17 PM:

is marking with a silver pen harmful in some way, assuming it's done on the tape, on the framline? does it flake off? i don't do that myself, but i do write titles and formats on the tails with silver sharpie.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-08-2008, 08:27 PM:

quote: Carey Barber
The silver-paint marker is 'policy' but I have never seen how it is useful and we don't use it.

When we first got our platter, we also got this device that you could stick a silver marker into (point down) and then you would slide the film thru it, and it would mark the edge of the film evenly. It was the most useless piece of equipment I ever had because I realized after our first platter showing that it's easy to see the reel divisions on the platters. I guess it could be good for old prints that have a lot of splices.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-08-2008, 08:34 PM:

Eprad made that unit. I've got one around here somewhere. What sucked about it was that sometimes the paint pen could "leak" a little bit too much ink and then it would invade the soundtrack and picture area of the film. Back in the day when I was testing that idea I quickly found out and trained people to twist the film and do the marking "upside down" so that couldn't happen. Then I also showed them that they HAD to wait until it was fully dry before winding because it could cause a brain wrap when the two layers that were stuck together by the ink tried to pull apart.

In the end I said "screw it", because it really is another one of those useless booth supplies, just like yellow tape. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 04-09-2008, 02:29 PM:

Does the silver marker cause SDDS issues?

Posted by Ben LaCrosse (Member # 4662) on 06-08-2008, 03:31 AM:

Hey Carey, does your AMC use cinema solutions? That's the company that the AMC I work for uses. Just recently I introduced filmguard to our booth and achieved the go-ahead to order. I've already looked once and didn't see it available.

Do you have any suggestions of how to go about ordering?

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 06-08-2008, 03:41 AM:

The Company I work for does not allow Film-Guard. I've tried as well as one of our Techs to get it approved at our theatre since I've used it before for over two years at the Goodrich Cadillac 5. Still the person that makes that call, says NO.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-08-2008, 05:20 AM:

Why?

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-08-2008, 11:13 AM:

Because the decision maker is getting a big kick back from the DLP conspirators for not to allowing film guard to be used therefore not putting on the best film based presentation they can and making DLP look superior to the scratched and dirty 35mm.... Or the guy could just be a retard I guess?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-08-2008, 03:06 PM:

It's a silly reason. One of these days the reason may end up getting posted here. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-08-2008, 05:16 PM:

I (and i'm sure everyone else here) would really really LOVE to hear it!!!

Posted by Carey Barber (Member # 1586) on 06-08-2008, 08:23 PM:

Ben,

Yes we use Cinema Solutions.

I am home right now, so I cannot tell you the exact name they are listed under, but both the FilmGuard spray and Film Tech media pads are available there.

You can check either in the "Order Guides" section or the "Products Catalog" section.

The spray itself has some name like "Film Guard Kit".

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 06-08-2008, 10:44 PM:

I would love to say but I know this site is monitored by people with in my company as well as some people that are employed by my company also post here.

Lets just say I think its a stupied reason, if its even the real reason.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-08-2008, 11:34 PM:

Let me guess: The person who makes these decisions is an old-school union projectionist who believes that threading from the platter, threading the projector, then motoring the leader into a laundry basket underneath the projector and then finally threading back to the take-up platter is the ONLY correct way to thread. If only everyone did that, then newfangled things like Filmguard become an absolutely unnecessary expense. Is this person old? Usually the older one gets, the more frightening the concepts of "new" and "different" become.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-09-2008, 02:42 AM:

I was sitting with my wife in our boxoffice tonight, and told her about this post. You haven't seen dirt until you see it on the really big screen. Small flecks of dirt look like rocks... especially up close.

On the other hand, we can see why the digital people would want to downplay the benefits of something that costs less than 1/3 tank of gas [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Ben LaCrosse (Member # 4662) on 06-09-2008, 05:32 AM:

Thank You, Carey.

I will look that up next shift. I really can't wait to order an offical bottle. I had a 8oz "trial" bottle and now am addicted. I even feel better about going into work. That should be one of the selling points, as well. Increases job satisfaction.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 06-09-2008, 05:56 AM:

Joe, maybe Brad will post the story or he can tell you off line. maybe we will get to meet some day and I will tell you the ridiculous reasons why its not allowed in our booths.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-09-2008, 06:08 AM:

This kind of crap just makes me angry.

FilmGuard should be MANDATORY in projection booths...not an optional extra.

It costs pennies a day to run...and yet makes your images on screen sparkle like new time and time again for weeks/months/years.

Why on earth would you NOT run it? The corporate guys that say no either have no interest in the screen results (but HEY! doesn't the candy bar look GREAT!) or are convinced that they got the folks in the door without FilmGuard...they watched the film without it...no-one complained about all those black spots and dirt...so why do they NEED to waste pennies a day to have it.

There's a word for people who think that way.

Moron.

You need it. It should be mandatory. If you're using PTR rollers, throw them in the bin 'cos you're wasting your time. If you are really serious about keeping prints clean...then spend a few pennies and watch your prints come to life. You'll never regret it.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-09-2008, 11:17 AM:

FWIW: Both Goodrich and National Amusements are happy Film-Guard users. I supply them.

Maybe this will "help" others who need to be led a little bit. Louis

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 06-10-2008, 01:11 AM:

Now you've got me curious.... ordered 2 bottles by the way.