Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Component Engineering's nonexistent customer svc. policy

This is topic Component Engineering's nonexistent customer svc. policy in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 06-08-2008, 07:04 PM:

We've got a Component Engineering "MS-100" booth monitor we use. It's basically a 20 watt audio amplifier and a few switches to select what channel you're listening to.

It quit working a couple of weeks ago. In fact, it blew the fuse located on the back of the box. We arranged a temporary setup to check sound, and began to try to figure out how to get it fixed.

We checked here (Film-Tech) for information. Hooray, it's listed in the Manuals section! We're in luck.... oops, maybe not, just a block diagram, no real tech info. Hmmmmm.

We then contacted Component Engineering via e-mail, to ask about a schematic. They replied and said they "do not release the schematic". They then inquired of the serial number of the device, suggesting that they might be able to service it.

We duly sent them the serial number. The reply to that was, effectively, "you unit is too old, you should throw it out and buy a new one". (We have the e-mails to confirm all this, I'm just summarizing it here)

A 20 watt audio amp. isn't exactly a military secret (or is it?), so their unwillingness to share a schematic is a fine example of customer service that's not there.

Part two of the story: we have someone who works with us who's quite skilled in electrical issues (and occasionally volunteers his time and services to help us out). He took the monitor home and, in a couple of days, replaced the following: (1) 4700mfd capacitor ($2.70), (1) 100mfd capacitor ($.70), (1) bridge rectifier ($.48). Sales tax on the above came to .32, and the shipping (from Jameco) was $6.59. TOTAL COST OF REPAIRS: $10.79.

A new monitor from Component Engineering lists for $758.00. I'm not sure my math is quite as good as it once was, but I think the $10.79 is a good saving over any possible sales discount we'd get off of $758. Or is there a dealer out there who gives away products?

We're not rolling in money, so it would have been a significant "hit" to pay for a new one (especially since they didn't want to bother even trying to fix ours -- remember, it was "too old"!).

I just relate this tale to inform you out there that their customer service seems to exist in name only. Has anyone else had similar issues? A competent service person should be able to repair your monitor. For example, some of the capacitors were even available at Radio Shack, except those had the wrong kind of leads to fit in the tight area inside the monitor.

I was shocked at this whole saga, because somehow I thought CE stood behind their products. Apparently, I was a bit mistaken.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-08-2008, 08:42 PM:

One possible excuse is that, due to changes in parts, they feel that a repair cannot be guaranteed to happen (Crown and dts, for example will not even consider their earlier models.)

The items we make will always be repaired; at least we will try. I can see some possibilities where we will fail, but at least we will try.

Even Dolby cannot get parts for some older stuff, but they at least will attempt most repairs. Louis

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 06-08-2008, 08:52 PM:

I've not had any problems with their customer service in the past, but maybe the person misunderstood and thought you were wanting to do warranty repair service? That might be why he/she said it was too old. This is why I like to call and speak with a live person instead communicating via email on issues like this.

As for not publishing the schematics, maybe they have some proprietary patented way they build their monitors and don't want it readily available to the public? A lot of companies do this sort of thing.

Anyway, at least you were able to find someone to fix it a lower cost than new/used and provided the company name for the rest of us who might run into this same problem. The last ms-100 I purchased new ran around 350 from the dealer.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-08-2008, 09:14 PM:

Hi Paul,
There is no excuse for not repairing it! Just put it in a box and send it to us. I fix those all the time.

C.E. made a lot of mistakes in that box including the crapo I.C. pin socket for the power amp. These boxes are an easy fix and the STK power amp IC that usually fails in them is still very available if one knows where to look.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-08-2008, 09:20 PM:

Just as a general observation, I've found email to be a really poor way of communicating these kinds of issues with vendors. Pick up the phone and talk to a live person if you can. You might have much better luck.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-08-2008, 09:53 PM:

Historically, CE has never released schematics. It is one of the reasons that I no longer would even consider an FM-35 cue detector. We had the initial problem with them and upon asking for a schematic (so I could beef up its detector circuit), I was instead told to measure stuff. I've proceeded to measure them right into the trash, whenever possible.

CE did eventually come out with a kit to make them much more reliable but it left a very bad taste in my mouth on that product. I still won't use them.

Oddly enough, I have found that CE has been more forth coming with documentation after the current owners took over.

Note, most companies no longer release schematics of their products anymore. Ever noticed that Since the CP55, Dolby does not include the schematics anymore?

I do find it odd that someone would leave you with the impression that they would not fix an existing MS-100...there really is nothing to it. CE also designed it to be servicable by leaving the wires connected to the terminal blocks in the rear...just remove the screws that hold that plate on, pull off the MTA connectors and remove the monitor...the rest of the rack need not be unwired.

Steve

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 06-08-2008, 11:42 PM:

Their exact words to us were:

quote:
Read the rules of this forum, Paul.

And so, at that point, we came to the conclusion that they were either uninterested or unable to service it, and did it ourselves.

I did think about sending it to Mark's company, but when it was clear it was a minor problem, we just did it in-house. My service guy sent CE a message over the weekend, maybe they'll reply.

As for Dolby not printing schematics, yes, but, for the most part, they can still repair/exchange cards for their units. And, for a really simple device like an audio monitor, it just baffles me how they couldn't somehow support it now.

And, yes, once we looked into it, it was apparent that it DID appear to be built with servicing in mind... the idea of not having to undo all the various leads where they attach to the back of the box, wow, thank you for that, CE! (Too bad I didn't discover that until we'd already disconnected everything!)

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-09-2008, 12:57 AM:

quote:
RULE #6 Quoting other people's emails. DO NOT DO THIS EVER! Emails are private conversations between people and will not be tolerated if any part of them or all of them are posted here or elsewhere unless the author has given specific permission to reproduce it. Expect to be banned and your post deleted if you ever do this. There is no tolerance with this.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 06-09-2008, 01:28 AM:

quote:
RULE #2 Something seem amiss? ... There is one simple rule to remember. Email the Administrator. It's as simple as that, email the Administrator. Do not fire up new threads. Do not make comments on the forum. Email the Administrator. ... Again, if you want to have your question answered or your concern taken seriously, email the Administrator.

... Did we mention to email the Administrator?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-09-2008, 08:10 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Ever noticed that Since the CP55, Dolby does not include the schematics anymore?

Actually if you ask them they will usually oblige if you have a good reason to require them. Although this isn't going to do one much good on the new digital crap.

Mark

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-09-2008, 08:25 AM:

Will Dolby provide source code if you ask nicely?

I don't see why this would be a huge issue as long as they licensed it to be used only on Dolby hardware (so that, for example, someone else couldn't re-use the NR decoding algorithms in another box).

At the very least, it would be good if they made a commitment to release source code when a product is made obsolete so that others could continue to support it.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-09-2008, 08:38 AM:

Dolby won't supply the source to WinDRAS if you ask nicely.

(I don't think its surprising for companies not to supply the source code to firmware/microcode, though. A license is not a whole lot of protection...)

--jhawk

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-09-2008, 10:07 AM:

I have found CE to have very good customer service in my experience. I always use the phone instead of email as I prefer the personal and instant communication. I think it may have just been not worth the cost of shipping the unit and paying someone to replace ten dollars worth of parts. You did the right thing. Usually in the cinema industry things like that are most often repaired by a third party tech, or a tech that is employed by the cinema not the manufacturer. Look at it this way if they had accepted it for repair you would have spent a fortune to ship it to them and back, and probably paid a lot in labor for them to fix it also. By them refusing to repair it you saved a TON of money and got it fixed for only ten bucks! They could have taken it and charged you a fortune but they didnt. IMO they did you a favor.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-09-2008, 12:16 PM:

...and maybe taken 6 months for turnaround, too. A monitor isn't a high-priority item, unfortunately.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-09-2008, 12:56 PM:

quote: Tim Reed
A monitor isn't a high-priority item, unfortunately.

How do you figure? Our company sees any piece of mal-functioning/broken booth gear as having all the same priority level.

Mark

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-09-2008, 02:04 PM:

No one was talking about your company, though. [Razz]

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 06-09-2008, 02:09 PM:

To give credit where credit is due, Component Engineering got back to us today and 'fessed up that they mishandled (in 4 separate ways) the issue.

I thank CE for that reply, and I hope that, should someone else have such an issue with their devices in the future, the options will be more apparent and workable. (I.e., possible to fix it "yourself", or via a tech-savvy dealer ... and even the manufacturer, who will probably be a little more receptive to the next one to contact them with a problem, thanks to this brouhaha.)

FWIW, during the time the monitor was out of service, we used a "boom box" (which had a line input mode) to monitor the sound. So, if you're ever in a pinch for one, there's an idea for you.

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 06-09-2008, 02:50 PM:

I have said this before but I have always found their service to be second to none, even considering the distances involved.

I agree that the best way to deal with problems is over the phone as you can resolve confusions that can happen with email and you build a relationship with the tech guys who have to understand the different terminology used.

Component Engineering.... GREAT Company to deal with.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-09-2008, 08:21 PM:

While I'd agree that Component Engineering didn't handle this issue very well, I find several things wrong with the initial posting. For example, to say that it only cost $10.79 to fix the monitor is total BS. As far as I know, there are no technicians working year after year for free. Also, no one really pays that list price.

I bet an inexperienced person contacted CE and THAT'S when things got confused. Any experienced tech would have dealt with this easily and quickly.

I don't know where this UNCONDITIONAL 'free tech support for life' for 35mm equipment came from. It somehow includes talking to inexperienced people for extended lengths of time. A guy once had me on the phone for an hour, and when I quoted him $20 for the part he needed, he got angry and thought that was outrageous. Many companies that sell 35mm equipment are not rolling in money either, and it's a significant "hit" to provide free tech support.

Again, Component Engineering probably didn't handle this issue very well, but I smell blame on BOTH sides.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-09-2008, 08:51 PM:

CE is about 60 minutes from here. On the only time I had trouble with one of their products, I took it to them, even though I had purchased it through a dealer. They exchanged it outright... no questions asked.

That's pretty much good enough.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-09-2008, 11:39 PM:

My limited experience mirror's Jack's. Anytime the tech at my old theater took stuff to them they'd give out a loaner immediately and simply ask for the original to fix (and swap back out once fixed).