Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Audio dropout on Get Smart

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Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 06-21-2008, 02:06 PM:

At the beginning of reel 3, the audio becomes almost inaudible for about a second, returns to normal for a couple seconds, then is inaudible for a second or so more. I have only witnessed this from the theater so far, and not from booth, so I am not sure if my processor is dropping format, but that alone would not explain this because my CP650 is well calibrated and a normal drop to analog is nearly imperceptible.

What I suspect is a case of the audio CAP that many people dealt with on Indiana Jones. Neither of my prints exhibited this issue with Indy in any of my theaters, so I have not personally heard it. I won't have a chance to inspect it thoroughly until tomorrow morning, and am just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-21-2008, 05:16 PM:

Could very well be. I'll wager your optical levels are low due to LED aging, so that when the audio CAP forces a reversion to optical, you hear it as a considerable drop in gain. Normally, optical and digital audio output levels are equal... WHEN the optical preamps are calibrated to Dolby level, using Dolby tone test film.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-21-2008, 08:24 PM:

Was it ever determined if this "audio CAP" was an intenional thing or was it just a lab problem? We never had (or at least I never noticed) the problem with our reel 5 when we played Indiana Jones.

Posted by Luci Reeve (Member # 3651) on 06-21-2008, 09:47 PM:

It would be nice to get a straight answer from someone in the industry (with good grammar).

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-21-2008, 11:17 PM:

Sorry, but it is illegal to hire someone in the industry with good grammar. They screen those individuals out.

Anyway, it was most definitely intentional on Indy 4. Your calibration could be dead on, but you still can't miss the sound the processor makes when it switches formats, kind of a "clicking" that really can't be missed on any processor. I could hear it pretty easily, and it is during scenes with a lot of sound going on, not during quiet scenes. The Get Smart version may be a completely different method of Audio CRAP. Remember how some movies had beeps in them? Apparently there are multiple methods of doing this.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-21-2008, 11:39 PM:

Ya gets what ya pays for.

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 06-22-2008, 12:13 AM:

I will have a look at the track in the morning, but I did witness it from booth today, and the processor did not indicate a drop from SRD, nor was the error rate particularly high, at a fairly steady 3.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-22-2008, 01:21 PM:

I would bet it is a lab problem. Request a new reel and see if that helps.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-22-2008, 02:37 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Was it ever determined if this "audio CAP" was an intenional thing or was it just a lab problem?

The email we received (relayed through our booker) about IJ4 stated that the "sound drops" were in fact a "security watermark" and those with sound issues needed to "properly re-balance" their digital/analog fallback.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 06-22-2008, 06:19 PM:

Yeah, like that's ever going to happen around here. Some of these theater are lucky if they can keep the show on the screen.

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 06-23-2008, 12:06 AM:

Upon inspection, the only unusual things I found were a pair of wavy lines, one red, one blue, in between the frames occurring twice, both in the general vicinity of the dropouts. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, these are just indicative of wet splices or whatever is used on internegs. If I recall correctly, the soundtrack is printed from a completely separate master, and so an splices on the negs would have no effect on the release print. I will have a look at my system to definitively rule out hardware problems on my end and go from there.

I have a picture, unfortunately from my phone, but it is a huge pain in the butt if someone knows what I'm talking about anyhow.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-23-2008, 07:35 AM:

The dropouts are because he has his shoephone service though AT&T [Big Grin]

. Actually I installed a CP650 last Saturday morning at a theater running that film and I stayed to watch it after the install... no dropouts at all.

Mark

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-23-2008, 10:01 AM:

I listened to the section of the film you described twice yesterday. Once from the booth and once from the auditorium.
No drop-outs here, and the CP-650 shows the normal playback
error rate. (usually between 2-4 on my unit)
Perhaps your print has a lab defect as someone else here
has suggested.

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 06-23-2008, 01:25 PM:

If there is a lab error that would cause this issue, how would I know, short of getting a replacement reel and it being gone? I could see no issue with the SRD track, but I am, in fact, not a DA20 or anything like that. The SR track was fine as well, but since I do not believe the processor is dropping to SR, it is a moot point. Replacing reels is something of a challenge, because it needs like three levels of corporate approval, from people who are mostly apathetic to a mere one or two second audio drop.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 06-23-2008, 05:50 PM:

Man, I am surprised no one has mentioned this. Just take the easy way out. Cut out the 1 or 2 seconds of bad film and nobody will know the difference [Big Grin]

. Be sure to save that film though because you'll have to put it back on when you send the print back, but it's not that big of a hassle, just use masking tape [Wink]

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 06-24-2008, 12:52 AM:

Apart from the fact that I'm not going to do that, it is not plausible, since I can't tell where the issue is exactly. I rewound the thing to a house reel and inspected several feet before and after the part where the dropouts occurred and saw no visible flaws, at least to my eyes. Perhaps if I'd gotten that DA20 installed in my forehead, but I figured having red LED eyes to read the cyan track was a better way to spend my money.