Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Any one out there use Horizon Equipment? What do you think of it?

This is topic Any one out there use Horizon Equipment? What do you think of it? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 09-04-2008, 12:31 AM:

Hello, I am new around here and frankly I am still new to projection where I am at (at least compared to some of the "old timers" here. I have Been a Projectionist for approx 10 months all told. I do have a strong Mechanical Background and allot of common sense and I now find myself as the Lead Projectionist at our ten screen house. We have no house technician and I am also being looked at to try and fill that position as well. We are running "new" Horizon Projectors and Platters. I am just curious of what the word is on these things as right now I have all the projectors working it is the D@#^ Platters that are killing me. With further input I will inform you of specific Problems. Right now there are to many to list!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-04-2008, 03:17 AM:

Welcome to Film-Tech and stay around awhile for there's tons of info that can be had in this particular forum pertaining to film handling.

First time I saw those Horizon's all-in-one units was at Showest. I though that was rather on the unique side, but wondered if they would have the longevitity of the domestic makes of Christie and Strong and remain maintenance free for a good duration.

What I did like mainly about them is that they used a glass reflector instead of the more common metal ones.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 09-04-2008, 06:46 AM:

Rick Hamilton is familiar with this product from Harbin projector. The platter bearing is grafite based would should be fairly friction free but I would feel more comfortable with convential ball/roller bearing support. Harbin has made product under specification for American manufacturers.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 09-04-2008, 10:55 AM:

I like their all in one system. I wish that platter with its small foot print were sold separate.

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 09-04-2008, 12:26 PM:

I guess I never realized that old reflectors were metal however I might like to go that way as we have already had to replace a few reflectors, from what I have been told, due to cracking under the heat. That primarily due to some idjiot not turning on the exhaust fans when powering up and running the units. Also so far the the maintenance has been pretty heavy on these suckers and they are only two years old (frankly we had problems with them since they were two months old). I thought they were great when I first saw them and worked with them. Then I left the theatre and took a years break going to school and furthering my education. When I got back they were just in horrific shape because of the numbnut they had while I was away. He thought cleaning a projector meant taking an air compressor and blowing the darn thing out. I have spent the last few months working on the projectors which frankly with that kind of abuse stood up rather well. now I have to figure out these flippin Platters. I'd say 7 of ten only have two working platters. one just lost it's second platter so we went to our old theatre (which is shut down) and stole one of the old Strong Platters as a replacement. That after ten years still works as well as it did (I assume) as the day we got it.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 09-11-2008, 07:51 PM:

Andrew,

I applaud your bravery, mechanical know how, and willingness to tackle new things. However, there is a lot involved in being a cinema tech. You NEED to be an expert in electrical, Electronics, Mechanics, Sound, Sound, Light, Optics, SMPTE guidelines, Dolby guidelines, as well as an expert projectionist to begin with.

I would highly reccomend that your bosses spend the money to hire a qualified technician as you will be chasing your tail trying to learn and put out the fires. In the meantime your customers will never be getting the on screen product they are paying for.

I am not trying to be harsh or discourage you. I am just telling you the honest truth. Definately watch your tech, and ask questions, and read this site everyday, read ANY and ALL the equipment manuals you can find (including everyone in the manuals warehouse here).

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 09-12-2008, 03:18 AM:

Thanks for the pep talk and no hard feeling. I came to the same conclusion a while ago. But the show as they say must go on so I will keep doing what I have to to get things done and working right. That includes asking for a tech to be sent out for some serious help. And yes in the mean time I will be hitting up the forums for help and I already read the manuals at work when ever I have time. Frankly they have saved me a few headaches already!

Again thank you to everyone for helping out I do appreciate it. [beer]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-12-2008, 08:56 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
First time I saw those Horizon's all-in-one units was at Showest. I though that was rather on the unique side, but wondered if they would have the longevitity of the domestic makes of Christie and Strong and remain maintenance free for a good duration.

Monte's point is probably the best point here! I have yet to see anything from China that can last. There is always some inferior point or aspect about the stuff. I've bought and owned alot of Chineese machine tools... I will buy no more of them myself. You will eventually spend more keeping them running than what you saved over a good American Made Machine.... and what about parts??? May be ok situation right now but may not be in 3 more years. I'm afraid the same situation applies to film projectors.

Mark

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 09-13-2008, 01:58 AM:

Truer word were never spoken. This Horizon Equipment is turning out to be a maintenance Hog and mind you they are only 2+ years old. frankly we have had tech over from china within the first few moths and they have been scheduled to come back but for some odd reason they haven't made it.

Oh well in the next two or three years we will most likely be switching to digital which means a whole new set of problems but at least we can get rid of the platters, film, and pretty much all but one projectionist / technician for maintenance.

Somehow though I just don't think it will be the same. [Frown]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-13-2008, 03:05 AM:

At least keep one or two houses with a dual film/digital setup and use the existing Horizons as boneyard units to repair the one or two that are still on line.

..and it wouldn't hurt at all for one to get the parts manuals out to study and eventually figure how those things tick and run.

Amazing on how parts manuals are like shop bibles...it's how I learned how to fix projector things...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-13-2008, 10:04 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
it's how I learned how to fix projector things...

"Projector things"?? Never heard that one. "Big Camera Upstairs" comes to mind and "Moving Picture Machine" is rarely ever used these days but used to be common... So mabie you're on to something new there Monte... "Projector Things Local 1234" and hey you could start your own union...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-13-2008, 01:17 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
you could start your own union

Now, that could be some fun ... getting operations on an forward motion after what I've seen, going through, and what is continually going on..

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 09-13-2008, 01:44 PM:

Any web page from producer??

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 09-13-2008, 08:00 PM:

Try these links:

Harbin Film Machinery Plant

Horizon 5565 Projector

(Referred to as Songhuajiang 5565 Film Projector on their webpage)

quote: Andrew Bangs
I guess I never realized that old reflectors were metal however I might like to go that way as we have already had to replace a few reflectors, from what I have been told, due to cracking under the heat. That primarily due to some idjiot not turning on the exhaust fans when powering up and running the units.

But of course that's a problem with lack of extraction, not with the design of the lamphouse.

These machines can't in any way be as bad as they're made out to be, after all, as Richard has pointed out above, they're made under specification for American manufacturers and this is a long-standing Chinese projector manufacturer.

What sort of maintenance issues are you having Andrew? Also, are the machines belt, gear or chain driven? Just curious, and sorry to hear you've been having problems.

[EDIT: Reference to webpage shows some of their models have conical shutters, curved gates and water cooling]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-13-2008, 09:28 PM:

What I visually noticed on these machines when I examined them at Showest, was machine surfaces far from being "up to calibre" compared to what we have in our cinemas now.

So many poor castings and metal stampwork was horribly noticable. Sprockets were not machined out from raw stock, but looked like they were stamped, or forged then cut out from a rather poor follower.

The oil bath transmission is real close to the XL, but I didn't like the shutter driver gear assembly even though it had the correct form of bevel/spiral gearsets, but teeth pitch was way too fine in my book compared to the XL gear pitch plus the smaller diameter which would require more torque to turn the shaft. I can easily see major failures if that machine ever had to stop quickly or suddenly.

I don't mean to pick on or be critical on this equipment, but in a way I can see where these units would benefit and that would be in a small house that didn't see continual operations on a daily basis as does our mainstream complexes goes through.
Or, in a home theatre atmosphere.
Or in a small traveling venue of sorts where, once again, occasional usage would be the norm.

..just my .03 on this one ...

-Monte

[ 09-13-2008, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 09-14-2008, 07:26 PM:

China stinks but Japan is another story... I serviced a theatre full of Tokiwa's once. There were built like tanks!

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 09-15-2008, 03:31 PM:

Certain things seem to be messed up in translation:

From the website:

quote:
3.Bending film gate with springiness steel tape, triple-lens turret is coupled change with the metal curtain film gate.

Huh? Curved gate and metal curtain. I'm guessing that's the aperture plate.

quote:
This machines is still equipped with pay-out and take-up each other, the lowest plate stories film.
Platter uses polarization slice photoelectricity coupling governor machine. It is patent technology.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 09-16-2008, 12:50 AM:

That sounds similar to the instructions I had on a portable MP3 player: "Do not ram the hard things."

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 09-16-2008, 01:12 AM:

The Photoelectric Governor...

The Brain units on the Platters use IR sensors to "govern" Speed. The Take up is also controlled by an IR sensor.

[Confused]

quote: James Westbrook
"Do not ram the hard things."

"While searching porn My hard drive got a virus. Now it's a floppy"