Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: lamphouse shootout christie d40 or strong x60?

This is topic lamphouse shootout christie d40 or strong x60? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009516

Posted by Craig Mueller (Member # 4912) on 09-21-2008, 03:37 PM:

I was hoping to get a professional (to semi professional) opinion on whether or not I should switch out lamphouses. I currently have an old christie xenolite d40 for my large screen with a 3k osram. The adjustments in the back are deteriorating, and are currently broken so I have to adjust the bulb with the side open and shove the holder around by hand while the bulb is lit, no fun. I just cant get it to be as bright as I would like it. My company just acquired from a now defunct drive in an old strong x60 that is in ok condition save a couple scratches on the reflector (which looks pretty new). I don't have screen specs (I think it is roughly a 40' screen in scope) but would it be worth it to switch out the lamphouses? Would the x60 have better light for the same wattage than the christie d40? I would love to have proper working adjustment but if there is little light gain, then it hardly seems worth it..
Thanks as always for your help!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-21-2008, 03:41 PM:

The X60 is one of my favorite lamphouses it will provide lots of light

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-21-2008, 08:11 PM:

The Christie SLC may well be a worthy contender. Anything Christie before that is best thought of as a load bank for a small screen. The Strong X60/Super 80/Ultra 80 use the same reflector; need I say more? Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-22-2008, 08:27 AM:

The SLC for sure... but some think its the wrong color temperature.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-22-2008, 11:00 AM:

Prints are timed for a specific colour temp and christie is the probably the only company that feels that the industry should time prints for the products they make

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 09-22-2008, 11:05 AM:

I hate to say this, but given the way modern TVs are set out of the box (and are left that way), most people couldn't give a damn about color accuracy, and the white balance is only a small part of that. Even with the cinema light source's temperature being off significantly both film and digital cinema will have significantly better color than almost anyone at home these days.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-22-2008, 04:59 PM:

Craig, given a choice between those two: X-60. No contest.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-22-2008, 05:06 PM:

Robert,

I completely agree and I have yet to see any proof that the color temp is any different than what Strong's reflectors produce... they ARE made by the same company too so more than likely they ARE the same.

The Timster,
The X-60 works much better for 70mm and can even be used without a beam spreader, but I don't worry myself about obsolete formats. Its whats going on today that really only matters. We don't outfit multiplex's with 70mm gear any longer. And then the SLC works VERY WELL with it's beam spreader for 70mm. X-60 parts are almost non existant, the few that are available have been priced out of this planet by Strong... and thats a big matter when it comes to me any making decisions about what to sell. Christie has somehow managed to keep all of their replacement parts pricing very realistic.

Mark

Posted by Craig Mueller (Member # 4912) on 09-22-2008, 06:17 PM:

Thanks for the input everyone, having a lamphouse that doesn't require the incredibly stupid act of adjusting it with the side open while on is worth it alone in my book.. I'll try to get a picture or illustration of the scratches up tomorrow, I am a little worried that they are large enough to affect performance. Glad to hear experts vote for the x60, very encouraging.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-22-2008, 09:08 PM:

Gee Mark...you haven't measured an X60 (and the subsequent incarnations that use that reflector) and the Christie SLC? The Christie is going to be, on average in the 6500K range. The Strong can be where you want it to be (use the three letter code on the reflector to match them)...including at the reference 5400K. With the Christie, the gate will get notably much hotter given the same wattage. I can also get more light out of the Strong.

They may be made by the same company, but they are clearly made to different specifications. Geez...TI makes all of the DLP imagers and everyone uses the same lenses yet you have witnessed that some companies can get more light than others.

Oh...and I just installed another pair of 70mm projectors and they will indeed run 70mm. No, I didn't use Strong lamphouses, as you might imagine.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-22-2008, 09:45 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Gee Mark...you haven't measured an X60 (and the subsequent incarnations that use that reflector) and the Christie SLC?

Nope! No call to measure them here. Not even to satisfy my curiosity... When you have one complex full of one type and another complex full of the other type... I have enough to do as it is.

quote: Steve Guttag
Geez...TI makes all of the DLP imagers and everyone uses the same lenses yet you have witnessed that some companies can get more light than others.

Good point except... not everyone is using the same optical coating on their prisms, mirrors, and integrators... and there ARE different types of lenses available, High Contrast and High Brightness... but again not from all manufacturers of DLP. In fact the manufacturer with the patented coating didn't feel there was even a need for the high contrast lenses until the new coating was introduced... in other words you wouldn't have seen any difference with either series of lenses before it's introduction. So yes, there is indeed a visible difference in gaining another 500% of contrast ratio.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-23-2008, 06:20 AM:

Mark, we definitely work in different circles. I've had lenses rejected due to color temp shifts. In fact, our purchase of the PCA-100 predates the need for it in DCinema. We are always having to match multiple projectors and to hit certain white-points.

One feels rather helpless to be doing a screening in a typical cinema and the film maker asks what we can do to get the color better since the fleshtones were shifted too blue.

If nothing else, it teaches one to use equipment that will hit closer to the mark...even in typical cinemas.

One thing that DCinema brings to the table, in spades, is the ability to hit a desired white-point.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-23-2008, 08:21 AM:

Steve,

I realize that. I left behind my days of having to have matched lamphouses when I quite the dailies thing and moved out here. 18 years and over 40 films was more than many others ever get to do.

Even if Strong lamphouses are closer to the correct color temp their stance of continually discontinuing parts, lack of even many common parts, and rediclous high replacement parts prices precludes me from even considering them. In fact I would consider Kinoton, or something like Big Sky way before Strong. For our "everyday" type of customer Christie has just proven to offer highest performance for the buck, most reasonably consistent parts prices and unparalleled support afterwards.

Mark

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-23-2008, 10:18 AM:

I hate to get into these arguments... it's like talking politics. But... I have to agree about the Big Sky lamps. If Craig has the opportunity to evaluate them, I think it would be worth his time.

My observations are generally anecdotal, but in my extreme conditions (drive-in, no-gain screens) I feel the Big Sky boxes put out at least as much light as the X-60, if not more, and they run at least as cool as the X-60 I used with a glass reflector (try getting one of those these days!).

This year, I had a literal meltdown in one lamp (probably my fault... another thread here). My outside exhaust fan failed and sealed the duct. The rear-mounted internal blower in the lamphouse was good enough to keep the bulb seals cool, but some parts needed to be repaired. Big Sky had the emergency package overnighted, and the pricing was very reasonable... one area where a company could certainly nail you.

I was very happy with my X-60 boxes, but I couldn't continue risk my business on aging equipment I couldn't get parts for. In that regard, Mark makes a very good point.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-23-2008, 10:41 AM:

Exactly! My whole buisness stance towards exhibitors has always been to provide the best bang for the buck whilst still being able to get parts and support for the equipment down the line say 10 or 15 years later. Even little Big Sky is far superior in this realm than Strong is.

Now, I've had to translate this all over to digital as our digital sales go crazy here. And Christie has hands down won in the department for projectors and Dolby for servers with Doremi comming in a close second.

With digital I can't rely on European companys nor the Dollar vs. the Euro no matter how nice their set up software is... thats something thats not used very often anyway. NEC can't seem to quite decide who is doing what. They have NEC direct and there is Strong. At one show you go to they are being shown by Strong and yet at another show they are on display by NEC themselves... even though NEC would be choice #2 for me it still makes me scratch my head and wonder just how comitted they are and just how much longer Strong can last.

Mark

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-23-2008, 12:39 PM:

All this complaining about color temperature and yet the prints everyone is running are still more often than not poorly timed and too green anyway.

The SLC will beat that X60 no contest.

Posted by Craig Mueller (Member # 4912) on 09-23-2008, 12:56 PM:

wow, yes this has become more politically hot than I ever would have guessed! There have been several mentions of slc lamphouses, the d40 is not "slc" correct? I think it predates it by a few decades, so I assume people are talking about all out favorite lamphouse. My company right now doesn't feel comfortable laying out for a new lamphouse so I am trying to make do with either of the two we have, but is there a Big Sky or other upgrade kit for the christie d40? Our service company doesn't seem to think so, he also seems to think that the lousy little adjustment apparatus in the back is still available from chirstie.. So, between the two would people recommend switching to the strong? or is it not worth the extra problem of supporting a legacy lamphouse like it? Thanks again.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-23-2008, 07:25 PM:

You're right! This is the politically hottest place on earth...

I do have to agree 100% with everyting Brad says above though.

quote: Craig Mueller
My company right now doesn't feel comfortable laying out for a new lamphouse so I am trying to make do with either of the two we have, but is there a Big Sky or other upgrade kit for the christie d40?

Yes, the Technilite Kit will fit your lampenhousen. There is a good tech in Southern CA that does these conversions too. His name is Larry Hammett. If you IM me I'll give you hiz phone number.

Mark

Posted by Craig Mueller (Member # 4912) on 09-23-2008, 09:54 PM:

I am confused/ignorant here. Are Brad and others saying the lamphouse I have (D40) is capable of beating the x60 in light or the modern SLC consoles? Sorry for the confusion. What approximate light increase (%) could the technilite give over the oem reflector. Thanks, and I'll message you soon.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-23-2008, 09:59 PM:

An SLC will take down anything else on the market with the possible exception of the Kinoton. (I haven't compared those.)

Any non-SLC Christie lamphouse though in my opinion is pretty much shit.

Posted by Mike Croaro (Member # 3123) on 09-23-2008, 10:01 PM:

".....The adjustments in the back are deteriorating, and are currently broken so I have to adjust the bulb with the side open and shove the holder around by hand while the bulb is lit, no fun."

Hi Craig; others:
Can't you find the parts used from one of the various vendors? Harrah's Theatre Supply is a 2 hours drive away in Hayward, CA. Maybe they can assist you.

Mike

Posted by Craig Mueller (Member # 4912) on 09-23-2008, 10:22 PM:

Harrah's is our service company. Great guys, but they don't have any more of those adjustment assemblies in stock. There might be one in an old console at another of our theatres but I was kind of dreaming to swap to what may be a better lamphouse. Brad, once more sorry for being dumb here, but you are saying that the d40 is sh*t right? I would definitely agree if that is the case.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-24-2008, 02:38 AM:

Yup, shit.

If I had any more of those parts left I'd send them to you, but I've got nothing left in my "raped parts from junked machines" stash. Has Harrah checked with Christie? And more importantly, I think Christie makes a retrofit kit that will convert that lamphouse to the optical equivalent of an SLC. I've never done it, but you should inquire about it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-24-2008, 02:40 AM:

The "Phoenix Kit" was to convert "H" series consoles (never just the lamphouse as the air plenum had the blow hang below). Alas, after many years, Christie has discontinued the Phoenix Kit. One can harldy blame them...most any suitable console should have been converted by now.

Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-24-2008, 02:41 AM:

Well there you go. Just throw it away and buy a new SLC. [Cool]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-24-2008, 05:47 PM:

I have, in stock, many Christie adjustment mechanisms, new. They are not cheap since Christie made them AFTER they discontinued the part number on behalf of National Amusements. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-24-2008, 06:04 PM:

We have boxes full of those assys. from doing Phoenix kits. The nice thing about the Phoenix kit is that it eliminates those as does the Technilite conversion.

Mark

Posted by Troy Hilsman Powell (Member # 4326) on 09-28-2008, 02:50 PM:

I use an X60 here at the drive in and WOW what a light output!!!