Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sony SDDS DFP D2000 Problem

This is topic Sony SDDS DFP D2000 Problem in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009519

Posted by Gary H. Pecherkiewicz (Member # 3080) on 09-22-2008, 11:08 PM:

I just finished hooking up a used Sony SDDS D2000 Processor and reader. The problem that I am having is that there is a very loud and distorted noise on just the LEFT CENTER and CENTER channels. The Data Present indicator is lit, but the System OK indicator is not lit! All the other channels sound fine, just a little too loud. Any ideas please.
Thanks,
Gary

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-23-2008, 06:25 AM:

If you don't have a System OK LED lit...then you have a problem. It has been awhile but I would start my investigation with the DEC-77

If at all possible, see if you can lay your hands on another processor. They should be relatively available if you do enough investigating as many have been discarded by now.

Once you get it running...it will likely perform well for some time. Oddly enough...I've found that the SDDS tracks of today beat the older tracks when SDDS was still in production. That is, they sure seem to track more reliably.

On the reader front, I strongly suggest replacing the factory sprocket with a Hardcoat version by LaVezzi (they made the original sprocket too but Sony didn't use the hardcoat version). You'll be amazed at how much quieter it runs. Also, the LEDs in the reader should be changed to the current versions (they are pink in color when off)...they are much more stable.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-23-2008, 08:13 AM:

We have them stacked like chordwood in the back room... if you need a spare processor for parts just let me know. Having the board repaired at Sony is a touch and go sort of thing and quite expensive.

Mark

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-23-2008, 01:51 PM:

SDDS = System Dumps During Show [puke]

Are there even that many films coming out with that track? The last dozen or so recent prints I've seen don't have any SDDS track.

I actually dumpstered an SDDS system that a client gave to me...

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-23-2008, 08:08 PM:

http://www.sdds.com/news_movies.cfm

seems to be updated...

Wow I should have asked here before hunting for a DFP2000 for my screening room. I ended up buying a system on ebay for a little less than $300 a few months ago. It seems to work correctly. All status comes up OK and i looped a length of trailer through the reader and tried pulling it through very steady. It detected the track and I got movement on the vu meters. I haven't mounted it on a projector yet..

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 09-24-2008, 02:21 PM:

Ah SDDS...

I had the same problem you mentioned in multiple channels at different times throughout my experience with the same reader/processor.

In some cases it can be a loose daughter board or a chip on one of the cards. The sheer force required to seat them can be quite amazing.

Not sure 'bout your exact situation but it never hurts to make sure everything is snug...

Posted by Gary H. Pecherkiewicz (Member # 3080) on 09-24-2008, 10:40 PM:

Reseated all the circuit boards, replaced the LED's with new pink ones, found one old LED array missing a mounting screw and somewhat crooked. After that did some minor reader adjustments and all is well with the SDDS 2000. Thanks to all who helped.
Gary

Posted by Gary H. Pecherkiewicz (Member # 3080) on 04-01-2009, 01:30 PM:

I have replaced the two LED arrays with the new pink LED arrays on my Sony DFP-D2000 processor. The System OK light is lit, the Data Present light is lit & the #3 & #4 LED's on the DSP-61 board are lit. But the Center and Left channels are still over modulating. I have changed the DEC-77 board and the problem moves to the Right and right Surround channels with another board!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-01-2009, 02:15 PM:

quote:
I have changed the DEC-77 board and the problem moves to the Right and right Surround channels with another board!

Welcome to the wonderful world of Sony... Its no Baloney!

I just went to order a 3.6 volt lithium battery today from Sony Broadcast parts thats used in my BVW-50 and they wanted 88 bucks for it... Got the identical battery at Battery Specialists for 14.00!

Mark

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-01-2009, 05:14 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Once you get it running...it will likely perform well for some time. Oddly enough...I've found that the SDDS tracks of today beat the older tracks when SDDS was still in production. That is, they sure seem to track more reliably.

Dunno what the situation was with printing labs in the US, but in Europe I often found that sometimes the prints coming from certain labs were simply printed laterally off, so far so that you could see that with the naked eye and one of the edge marks which are crucial for the system to find the data tracks was almost completely missing because it was too close or even over the edge. We actually took samples from prints sometimes and sent them to SDDS in London with the print information and they would identify the lab and work with them on realigning the "camera". If correctly printed, the tracks were usually very reliable.

quote:
I have replaced the two LED arrays with the new pink LED arrays on my Sony DFP-D2000 processor. The System OK light is lit, the Data Present light is lit & the #3 & #4 LED's on the DSP-61 board are lit. But the Center and Left channels are still over modulating. I have changed the DEC-77 board and the problem moves to the Right and right Surround channels with another board!

What happens if you flip the film over so that it is still running in the right direction, but with the inside and outside tracks swapped? Normally you would still get sound, but with the channels now coming out of the wrong speakers (e.g. the C would now go to the SW channel). Does the problem stay on the same channels as with the film correctly orientated? This test should be run with the amps off and only the booth monitor on because the SW channel will now come out of the C and that could be unhealthy for the speaker.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 04-01-2009, 05:25 PM:

Try to check cap's near output DAC on board because if DAC don't receiving whole supply that could be a reason, remember in DCP1000 I had same issue, even they don't use same dac, but they use same cap [Smile]

Another clue that is DAC is because L and Lc are on same DAc, DAC's are stereo.

Posted by Gary H. Pecherkiewicz (Member # 3080) on 04-01-2009, 06:28 PM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
What happens if you flip the film over so that it is still running in the right direction, but with the inside and outside tracks swapped? Normally you would still get sound, but with the channels now coming out of the wrong speakers (e.g. the C would now go to the SW channel). Does the problem stay on the same channels as with the film correctly orientated? This test should be run with the amps off and only the booth monitor on because the SW channel will now come out of the C and that could be unhealthy for the speaker.

I ran a reel with the analog soundtrack on the inboard side and the Left and Center channels still are distorted and over modulated! The tracks did not move to other speakers!

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-02-2009, 04:47 PM:

In addition to following Marin's tip which I think is a good one, you should also hook up the PC and check the B-chain alignment. Who knows, maybe the channel output faders and graphic EQ bands are all pulled up all the way, that could send these channels into distortion.
It looks like the problem vanished for a few months though, so that would make it extremely unlikely that there is a problem with the setup. But your problem history is not entirely clear. Did the problem disappear for a while and then it returned?
Unfortunately I don't have the service manual with the detailed board information and diagrams anywhere within reach right now, so I am also out of ideas at this point.

EDIT - OK, I actually found the service manual and if flipping the film does not move the problem to other channels and the S and P indicator LEDs on the left side of the DSP-61 board (the third from the top) are more or less continuously lit when a piece of film with good SDDS data is running, then the problem is most likely on the APR-6 DAC board (the one at the bottom). There is a method to check and align the input and output levels of this board for which you need a real time analyzer, an oscilloscope and some basic experience with electronics. You also need an extender board to reach some of the adjustments but I think you can work around that because the chance to get that extender anywhere is basically 0. I have done this only two or three times more than 10 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. If you feel like attempting this, PM me a fax number then I can fax you the pages from the manual.

Posted by Gary H. Pecherkiewicz (Member # 3080) on 04-02-2009, 11:22 PM:

Thanks to all for their suggestions! I had a tech friend over to align the processor two days ago. The channels all sound good when doing the adjustments through the computer, but the problem is after the computer is taken off line and film is running, then the problems began. My tech friend gave me the phone number of of Sony Tech that might be of help. I called him and after explaining what was happening he immediately told me that it is the daughter board on the DEC-77 board. He said that this board has been a problem for some time with many units. I did have another DEC-77 board from a nonworking processor so I just swapped out the daughter boards and the the problem changed drastically. I had all the channels running pretty normally but the Right & Right Surround Channels were having drop outs. He told me to find a good daughter board and all will be fine. So now I am looking for another DEC-77 board to take the daughter board off.

Thanks again!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-03-2009, 08:50 AM:

Gary,

Don't bother swapping the daughterboards...just change the whole DEC-77. The Daughterboard is about all that goes wrong with them, typcially. Also, try removing and reseating the board...this sometimes helps.

Steve

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-03-2009, 04:37 PM:

Speaking of SDDS techs, has anyone heard from Robbie Hidalgo recently? Has he reappeared?

quote: Gary H. Pecherkiewicz
Thanks to all for their suggestions! I had a tech friend over to align the processor two days ago. The channels all sound good when doing the adjustments through the computer, but the problem is after the computer is taken off line and film is running, then the problems began.

That's good to hear but you should have told us that earlier because that obviously changes the overall picture. If you only give us bits and pieces of information, then it is hard to come up with the right answer and give you the help you are asking for.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-03-2009, 06:47 PM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
Speaking of SDDS techs, has anyone heard from Robbie Hidalgo recently? Has he reappeared?

One person... pretty reliable... told me that he's with Elvis.

Another person... also pretty reliable... told me that he works for Shure Brothers. I can very definately tell you that Shure Brothers has never heard of him because I called them...

Se we can assume he has joined up with Elvis...

If anyone sees him (or Elvis) please post the sighting here [thumbsup]

.

Mark