Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Scratching Prints

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Posted by Drew Ballard (Member # 4650) on 10-08-2008, 10:27 AM:

I have a simplex 35 that has just started scratching prints the scratches are straight lines all across the screen i have went through the projector countless amount of times anybody got any suggetions

Thanks Drew Ballard

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-08-2008, 11:38 AM:

Drew, Welcome from someone else in AL.

Not much detail. If by "across the screen" you mean horizontally as viewed on the screen, it sounds like a platter problem. If you have a platter system, post some more details and I'm sure someone can help.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-08-2008, 06:16 PM:

Is your sound drum spinning?

Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 10-08-2008, 06:20 PM:

Yep, can't be the Simplex. Maybe from building up the print. You might have the roller feeding onto your platter (on your makeup table)set too low and its rubbing across the film as you build your prints.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 10-08-2008, 07:24 PM:

Also check on your platter system that all your rollers are rolling at all times.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-08-2008, 08:18 PM:

I am betting that he means many vertical lines across the screen, not horizontal lines.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 10-08-2008, 10:06 PM:

So let's make a deal here!

The lines on the screen either are up and down or they are left to right.

Up and down are caused by the film dragging on something. The left to right are caused by something rubbing across the film. Intermittent marks are more difficult to define and locate because they appear only in a small area on the film and may have various causes.

The two largest causes for scratching are the platter system and frozen or dragging sound reader drums.

Perhaps this might help clarify what is seen and help to locate some possible causes.

KEN
[Roll Eyes]

[ 10-09-2008, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Kenneth Wuepper ]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-08-2008, 11:28 PM:

quote: Kenneth Wuepper
The left to right are caused by something rubbing across the film.

Or slapping against the film if the loops are too big.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-09-2008, 08:52 PM:

Hey Drew

I hope you're not another one who signs up, asks a question then we never hear from them again. There are a few suggestions here but as said before we need more information to truly help you.

Let us know what's going on.

Posted by Drew Ballard (Member # 4650) on 10-09-2008, 09:24 PM:

Hey

My lines are vertical and all across the screen only on 1 house all my rollers are free and my sound drum spins with the speed of the movie i have went over everything time and time again

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 10-09-2008, 09:54 PM:

Drew,

By any chance does your machine have a "fire trap" at the top or bottom of the machine. The fire trap was necessary for Nitrate film stock but some remain on the machines and can collect dirt and debris that can scratch the film. All rollers in that area should be clean and roll freely. If one of these rollers is missing, the film could scrape against the casting at that point and cause scratches.

On only one occasion have I seen the spacing between the aperture and the film runners was too close and the film touched the aperture plate. The material also piled up in the aperture and was a dead giveaway of the problem source.

KEN

Posted by Drew Ballard (Member # 4650) on 10-09-2008, 10:12 PM:

i dont believe it does have a fire trap i have cleaned the film trap and replaced the tenison straps im clueless now

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 10-10-2008, 12:57 AM:

Also consider that somebody may have scratched it. Like you should keep track of when a scratch first appeared and who was working. If you start seeing a pattern, talk to the person in question.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-10-2008, 09:07 AM:

Next questions:
Base or Emulsion scratch?

Could someone have missed the bottom roller and scratched the film along the bottom of the soundhead?

Is there any emulsion build up in the projector or soundhead which would give a hint as to where the scratch is starting?

Posted by Drew Ballard (Member # 4650) on 10-10-2008, 10:43 AM:

not real for sure when it started my boss noticed it and called me i havent noticed any kind of build up in the projector

Posted by Jon P. Inghram (Member # 4125) on 10-10-2008, 01:18 PM:

On Christie AW3 platters with black rollers, a "nice" way to give the print vertical scratches is to accidentally thread over the metal keeper for the bottom roller on the sliding roller cluster thing.

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 10-10-2008, 02:40 PM:

Drew:

Has this projector scratched more than one print? It sounds like someone missed a roller at some point. Was it a new print when you got it? If not can you verify if scratches were evident on the first show? There are many possibilities to rule out.

Posted by Tony L. Hernandez (Member # 3524) on 10-10-2008, 10:27 PM:

Like others have said, there could be so many causes to your scratches. However, I believe it is safe to say (anyone can correct me if I've left something out) that scratches are always caused by one of three things : 1. Improper threading of platters/projector(s) 2. Allowing dirt to build up in platters/projector(s) and 3. A worn or damaged part in the platter/projector(s)

I would take a good long examination of your equipment while you are running a print. I did this after scratching the hell out of a print, much to my chagrin, and discovered that a tiny, innocent looking plastic roller had frozen up and was causing all of my problems. Once oiled, my problems went away.

You can also run an old trailer REEL TO REEL (do NOT run it thru the platters)thru your projector. If the trailer comes out scratch free, then the problem is most likely in your platters. Likewise, if its scratched after running it reel to reel, the problem lies in your projector and/or soundhead.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed but I have found that Warner Bros. prints seem to scratch very easily and require extreme care to keep the prints scratch free.

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 10-10-2008, 11:49 PM:

Doesnt the Simplex 35 have an adjustable shoe like the 1060? I've scrached several prints because someone was too rough with the film gate and knocked the shoe out of wack. It only takes one pass to scratch a print.... Thank God for Film-Guard!

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 10-13-2008, 10:22 AM:

quote: Tony L. Hernandez
You can also run an old trailer REEL TO REEL (do NOT run it thru the platters)thru your projector. If the trailer comes out scratch free, then the problem is most likely in your platters.

In fact, get a NEW trailer that has never been on a projector and see if it scratches.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 10-13-2008, 05:18 PM:

I don't have reel to reel on any of my Simplex machines; therefor, I use a loop. Its a little tricky sometimes to set a loop up so that no scratching occurs, BUT....

This is great advice to run a brand new piece of film, possibly a loop if needed, making sure there not to create your own scratches by getting the film to loop back to the top.

This exercise will eliminate a lost of wasted time and effort if indeed no scratches appear.

Posted by Troy Hilsman Powell (Member # 4326) on 10-16-2008, 12:18 AM:

Had the same problem on my simplex 35.I had to adjust the dead stop on the film gate when it was closed.Simplex is known for it.The film was rubbing across the aperture plate when it was pulled down in the trap.Whole movie was scratched.Most times you will not see this until rethread on next show of same print.Had to adjust a lot of them over the years.Loc-tite works best on the dead stop allen head screw threads.Loc-tite worked best.Had no more problems after that.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 10-16-2008, 06:24 AM:

Troy,

Don't all of your Allen screws have locking nuts? All of the Simplex we have do!

KEN