Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DTS troubles on High School Musical 3

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Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 11-01-2008, 11:47 PM:

Is anyone else having timecode issues with R2 & R3 of "High School Musical 3"? We've got 2 prints, and R2 & R3 on both prints are having timecode issues - where the timecode gets read about once every 4 seconds. It stays in sync (for the most part), but on the other reels, my timecode LED at the reader is solid.

I'm seriously considering a minor tweak to the alignment screw, but would rather not if anyone else is having troubles too.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 11-02-2008, 01:55 AM:

I'm was having timecode "flutters" on the last reel of one of my HSM3 prints, but this print has been moved to a non-DTS house.
This is probably a film lab issue. I would not tweak the timecode reader.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-02-2008, 03:54 AM:

Check LED gain before adjusting anything on a DTS reader. Do you have this kind of problems on other prints? Which revision is your reader?

Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 11-02-2008, 01:38 PM:

Trouble has only happened with this title (2 prints), and while I was monitoring yesterday, I noticed it on some trailers too. The reader is practically new - one of the RoHS units with a date code of 1307.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-02-2008, 06:15 PM:

I do not recommend you to tweak your reader. A well aligned reader will read everything always. In my experience Timecode issue is very rare.
I would check the led's gain, since when they're new it's normal that after few months they need calibration.

Check your next prints and see what happens.

Marco

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-02-2008, 10:34 PM:

quote: Marco Giustini
I do not recommend you to tweak your reader.

Why not? It's just a simple screw. If you aren't seeing a solid glowing LED indicator, turn the screw slightly left or right until it's glowing. Alignment done.

When we first got DTS there was a giant sticker on the reader that said DO NOT ADJUST THIS READER - IT HAS BEEN ADJUSTED AT THE FACTORY FOR PERFECT ALIGNMENT. However, when we fired it up the LED would not glow at all! Technician removed the sticker, turned the screw and everything was perfect in about 2 seconds.

Stuff shifts in shipping - this is not exactly a rocket science adjustment.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-03-2008, 07:24 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Stuff shifts in shipping - this is not exactly a rocket science adjustment.

Nadda! It for sure does not shift in shipping but the placement of the DTS track is what is not consistant. I had a long discission about this with Clyde McKinney during lunch at the last Dolby training class. He's looked into making DTS "buzz track" but says there is no refrence for the placement of the track in relation to the inside edge of a perf, which is how placement of all other parts of a film frame are spec'd. DTS instead spec'd it from the edge of the film... and since film witdh does vary so does the placement of the track. Now the DTS TCR's have a very wide scanning area that they can read but on occasion a track may be on the very edge of that scanning area.... Thats when adjusting the scanner may bring it back to working state. However... in reality you have a defective print who's track is too far out of range and you should request a new one.

Marco is also correct in that you should check the gain of your LED... before ever turning that lateral adjustment screw! It should be 4vdc between the two test points in the reader without film threaded through it. It could be a bit too low... say around 2 volts... which is too low for consistant reading where differing densities of tracks may affect it.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-03-2008, 07:03 PM:

I had a DTS reader few years ago. It never read correctly. One print was fine, the other's not. The led was flashing too much.
With the help of DTS I tried to align the screw, it's simple: you turn it to the points where the reader does not read anymore, then set it in the middle. But I had to set it different for each movie.
I tried everything: ground connections, tension from platter...

Then I was able to borrow an old reader from another theater. And despite it was a rev F, and mine was a rev H, that old, rusted (Really!) reader was reading EVERYTHING.

So I asked for a replacement of my reader. From that moment (2+ years ago) NEVER had a single issue with Timecode. I just check the LED gain every few months.

This is why I do not recommend you to adjust the screw, or at least to try something else first.

Marco

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-03-2008, 08:29 PM:

I'm sure Blaine knows this, but before adjusting anything, not only should you clean the optics and check the voltage, but you should also look at the signal on an oscilloscope with film running by.

--jhawk

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-04-2008, 12:40 PM:

There's been a few times that I've had to tweak the screw for the scanner drum on a DTS reader to get a steady pickup light.

Sometimes, you just gotta break some rules - just do it and it works flawlessly afterwards.

That's was tekkies are known for: to jump in head first into the unknown at times.

-Monte

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-04-2008, 12:53 PM:

There's no dispute that adjusting the screw can help in many cases. The problems are:

(1) It can screw you for all future prints that are not misprinted, and you do not have a good way to adjust it back to the location where it belongs.

(2) Just because changing the position fixes your problem doesn't mean it is the right fix. Many problems could result in the reader scanning a narrower width than it should (low gain, photocell problems, dirty optics). Moving the position of that narrower scanning for a given print can solve your immediate problem, but the root problem. And then when you turn up the gain pot (easy), you're screwed to recalibrate.

--jhawk

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-04-2008, 03:55 PM:

If this was a major complicated adjustment we were talking about I would agree that it shouldn't be touched. But cripes, it's a big screw right on the front of the reader. Even if you had to adjust it for every movie, what's the big deal? The main caveat is "don't turn it very far." They should put THAT on the sticker.

Anyway I just thought it was pretty funny that the big red sticker said "don't adjust" but after we adjusted it, the thing worked flawlessly for the next 12 years.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-04-2008, 04:10 PM:

Yea, may not be the PROPER way of doing things, but it does the job and if one print against the other are different in tracking, turn the screw the other direction (I usually mark on the case where the slot of the screw was in case I need to go back to that original setting..which is a rare case after I did that tweak adjustment) for that other print.

And it doesn't take more than a quarter turn in either direction for this re-alignment anywhos.

All I care about is that I get a steady green light, for it's just picking up bar code info - not sound info.

-Monte

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-04-2008, 05:23 PM:

Mike

No one says that that screw cannot be touched. It's there to set the lateral alignment of the reader of course.

What I mean is that if your reader has trouble reading perhaps moving the screw will not solve the issue; if ONE print has trouble with timecode, ask for a replacement is the best thing to do, you'll save time and money.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-04-2008, 05:31 PM:

I'd ask for replacement discs first even though the replacement print will have a set of discs in it.

Just that you'd get more questioning from TECH on why you need to replace the print than with disc replacement.