Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Projector keeps stopping

This is topic Projector keeps stopping in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 12-29-2008, 02:52 AM:

It's a Kinoton Fp30. I had an electrician check it today after several attempts from me to fix it. I had replaced the film break micro switch on Boxing Day and it worked fine for 24 hrs. Then it started failing again. The electrician checked the switch and all good, my soldering was fine (he took it off and re-soldered)I took off the film break roller and found that it was a bit sticky so cleaned it, put it back together and we tested it. All good. Until just now when I got a phone call! The projector is going but only after a couple of false starts.
What else could it be? If not the microswitch, or the connection, or the roller...any ideas??

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-29-2008, 04:02 AM:

Does this projector run on platters or reels?
If platters, the platter take-up speed control may be erratic, causing the failsafe to shut down. I've had this happen with my Speco platters.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-29-2008, 04:24 AM:

Tried another Microswitch? Just because an installed switch is new, it can also fail quickly.

It could also be the "stop" relay in the automation that could be having fits since they do love to work loose out of their sockets.

Do the trick of tying the two wires together that is mounted on the switch to bypass that part of the circuitry. At least if the machine runs normally, you've "condemned" that part of the loop.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-29-2008, 05:28 AM:

Does it have that silly switch at the top loop? Perhaps someone's threading with a massive loop.

In my experience, it's always been the microswitch though...perhaps the new one's a dud also?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-29-2008, 06:31 AM:

What vintage FP30? There are two relays within the projector itself...their names will vary based on vintage. In a current generation projector, Re1 will be the motor start relay and it will latch through Re2. Note, there are several Re1 relays as several things must come on when the motor is running. However, the one without the suffix is the one that handles latching the relays on.

In the older systems (prior to "D"), you had large relays (6-pole) but the concept is the same.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-29-2008, 10:18 AM:

Why do they need relays at all... The Ernemann uses the same outer rotor drive motor and doesn't use any relays.

Mark

Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 12-29-2008, 01:42 PM:

Thanks for your responses. It's a Kinoton FP30D with platters.I just tested it this morning and it seems OK. John, the sparky tested that microswitch and he said it was fine. When I pulled the film break knob just now I could hear the switch being activated so it's connecting OK. I think maybe Steve may be onto something about the relays. Will keep you posted.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 12-29-2008, 02:31 PM:

I second Steve's relay suggestion...my FP-38D's (pretty much same thing as yours) had issues with a relay that would not allow it to come up to full speed (I do have the electronic drives).

If you can, mount a standard failsafe like the FM-35 and get rid of that split roller failsafe..I have had false trips with them on my machines..they got bypassed after the first show. [Smile]

(I run reels and changeovers though.)

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-29-2008, 05:49 PM:

The kit from Kinoton to replace the electromechanical failsafe with an infra red type is a worthwhile upgrade.

Although I do wish that there was an off the shelf mount for the FM35 on an FP??.

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 12-29-2008, 06:56 PM:

Hi Sally, I had the same problem with FP50D turned out the the sensor that reads the film movement (has orange & Green leds on it)had develpoped a fault.After replacing the sensor all went well.Another thing to watch for is that sometimes the sensor can get knocked and move slightly enough to only read the film movement intermittantly and the samething will happen.Check to see if its in right position and to make sure its tight.
Steve

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 12-29-2008, 08:22 PM:

On the other hand, disconnect the platter safety from the projector to see if it goes away. If it is a Kinoton platter is easy as it is a plug in connector on the platter. POE. Process Of Elimination
Demetris

Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 12-31-2008, 06:31 AM:

I tapped the film break relay while the credits were going (and everyone had left of course)..and the projector stopped. Something I should have mentioned when I started this post was that when we ran the projector without film to test it a few days ago, and then closed the projector's back door, it stopped. We have also had the dowser come down a couple of times in the last two days. I gave the relay a clean, and made sure it was snug when putting it back in. It has behaved all day. We won't be able to get a spare for a few days now as its New Years so hopefully it will hold.
Stephen, we don't seem to have any film movement sensors like you mention with the orange and green LEDs!