Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 70mm projection staffing when introduced

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Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 01-10-2009, 04:36 PM:

When 70mm was introduced here in the 1950s a dispute arose as to whether there should be one or two projectionists screening it. Naturally, this was in the days of change-overs and large reels. I personally worked under both systems in the sixties and seventies.

I would really appreciate it if those who remember those days, could let me know what the policy was in your part of the world. I am particularly interested in locations where 20th Century Fox had an interest, but all situations of that period of the late fifties, sixties and seventies would be very helpful.

I am also very interested to know if more than one projectionist was required, what the reason was at that time.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-10-2009, 05:13 PM:

I can only speak of the early to mid 80's but in two areas (Tucson. Az and Los Angeles) common pratcice I'd run into was one man (Tucson was a twin, common booth, one man for both) and L.A. most were platter houses and one man fro up to eight screens (usually only one or two screens in a complex were running 70mm) and AVCO Westwood (which was a tri-plex) had one man for all three rooms. Setup was one upstairs booth and two downstairs booths. The AVCO had two projectors in each booth, and I'm reasonably sure that the downstairs booths (which were tight) were large reel changeovers (automated) and IIRC the main booth had a platter.

Syufy (nee Century) Cinedomes in Orange had Norelco platters and Century JJ projectors, all run by two guys for six screens, three(?) separate booths.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-10-2009, 06:41 PM:

It was pretty much standard policy that for 70mm runs, during 50s into the 70s around the Washington DC area that there would be 2 projectionists.

I'm guessing the theory was that the 70mm shows were events and the second operator would ensure greater success, including if there was a problem...one could fix the problem while the other could tend to the show.

The only time I've been part of a dual-projectionist (or more on one screen) event was for special screenings where the studio was footing the bill.

Steve

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-10-2009, 06:47 PM:

Well, back in the nitrate days, the reason they wanted an operator for each machine was so there'd always be a man stationed beside the projector, who could quickly shut it down in case of a film break. That was the reason the union gave, at least. Maybe the 70mm practice was some kind of holdover?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-10-2009, 08:10 PM:

Often the big downtown houses had two operators per shift and they were often the first 70mm houses so that continued
In Ontario it was the early 80's when they dropped the two person requirement

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-10-2009, 08:47 PM:

The Cinerama Dome here used two operators whenever 70mm was being run, at least up until the early '70's. The last 70mm I saw there was a re-release of 2001: A Space Odyssey in the mid-'70's. By then only one operator was being used.

Sin City didn't get 70mm-capable houses until fairly late in the game - 1965 or so. That's when both the Cinerama and the Fox Charleston Plaza Mall opened. The Sunset Drive-In was also 70mm-capable, but I don't know when it became so. As far as I know, the Cinerama was the only screen in town that ran any 70mm at all during the two-operator era.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-10-2009, 09:39 PM:

Louisville, KY: certainly in the 1970 onward time frame, there was no difference in booth manning for 70mm, even for automated changeover operations versus 35mm. Especially in the platter era that was true since you only threaded once, just like 35mm.

BTW: film damage was REDUCED once 70mm had platters! Louis

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 01-11-2009, 03:56 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
BTW: film damage was REDUCED once 70mm had platters! Louis

Not quite true!, there were many examples here in the UK where 70mm prints did get Trashed or Damaged while in the hands of a poorly trained operator with Platters, these were maninly Multiplexes that opened in the 1980/1990's and were single manned.

There are some records for 70mm Reel to Reel shows at some Cinemas I have heard in the 1960's and "Sound of Music" was one of them that ran for almost 2 years with the same print at one Cinema I know.

Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 01-11-2009, 04:30 AM:

Thank you very much for your comments. Naturally when platters were introduced, it resulted in two projectionist operation for 70mm being reduced to one. So far from your replies, it appears that two projectionists were the norm in the 1950s to 1970s with large reels and change-overs. Was there objection by the exhibitors to the added cost of employing an extra projectionist or was it just accepted that it was necessary?

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 01-11-2009, 09:48 AM:

To add to Steve's comments above which are absolutely on the mark, another reason 70mm, in its heyday, had 2 projectionists was because of the weight of the reels. Many of the operators were old men at the time and hefting those reels could have been a problem. I remember "Pop" Shannon who was 90 years old and still working the Warner or Mac Sparrow who was in his 80s. This was not uncommon as most of those guys had started during the silent era. As I recall, theater management accepted the 2 projectionist rule because the format would pack the house.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-11-2009, 10:10 AM:

quote: Rick Raskin
another reason 70mm, in its heyday, had 2 projectionists was because of the weight of the reels.

Tell me about it! I ran a 70mm change-over booth for awhile in the 1970's. I'm not excactly a large person. In the 1970's I was in my 20's and a full reel of 70mm magnetic stock probably equalled about half my weight at the time.

Being a little on the short side it was sometimes a challange for me to lift the huge reels up and try to get it on the spindle. There were some nights at the end of a long shift where I'd probably made an amusing sight trying to do so.

On one or two occasions where I just couldn't handle it, I'd get one of the ushers (yes, we had ACTUAL USHERS!) up from downstairs to help me guide the reel onto the machine.

I always found it somwhat confusing that union rules prohibited me from carrying film reels up any stairs and that they also provided me with a small 'reel-cart' to move the films across the booth. Both of these regulations were supposedly to prevent injury. But there was nothing in the rules to prevent me from hurting myself by trying to lift those big unweildy reels above my head while trying to get them on the projector spindle.

And why the reel-cart? I could easly ROLL the heavy reels across the booth floor from the storage cabinet to the machines. I didn't need a cart for that!

I'd have prefered they spent the money on a small platform or a block & tackle [Big Grin]

to help me reach that top spindle!

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-11-2009, 10:45 AM:

quote:
The AVCO Westwood (which was a tri-plex) had one man for all three rooms. Setup was one upstairs booth and two downstairs booths. The AVCO had two projectors in each booth, and I'm reasonably sure that the downstairs booths (which were tight) were large changeover (automated) and IIRC the main booth had a platter.

When the AVCO was a triplex it had two operators, one in the downstairs booth. Which was equipped with two V-8's and large Cinerama size style reels. For 35mm we put the whole feature on one large reel, for 70MM we broke the feature into two parts because of the weight. All three rooms had the Pec-1000 (I think that was the model number). The upstairs booths was one large booth long booth. They were equipped with two V-8's projectors in both theatres and did auto changeovers with CP-200's in all booths. The reels were large 6K size reels.
The above is when the AVCO ran as a triplex and when I ran it. GCC twinned the main house (downstairs) and added the platters around that time. So today the AVCO is a quad.
But when you ran 70MM there was one man upstairs and one man in the main booth downstairs. So that is how the GCC AVCO Westwood was setup in the 1990's.

Over at the Pacific's Hollywood Pacific Theatre (triplex) Two rooms were equipped to run 70MM, the main theatre (1200 seats downstairs and one of the former balcony theatres 500 seats) The main booth (former Cinerama house, Baker) had two Century JJ's and a platter. So if 70MM was booked into the main room or upstairs, Pacific required one man to stay with the 70MM room.

In to Roadshow days in Los Angeles the theatre had two operators per shift. One for one projector and another operator for the second machine. They also got top rate for operators in the city.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-11-2009, 12:48 PM:

In the '60s, the Seattle Cinerama (when running the format) had one projectionist for each machine (including sound), and a "master control) operator, who sat at a window, with filter plates and controls that could move the side projectors to match with the center machine. 5 people!

Of course, back then the Cinerama was a big part of the Seattle world's fair. Wouldn't do to have a presentation problem.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-11-2009, 02:17 PM:

Have seen 70mm reels "stacked" so 2 reels were on one house reel. Only real men need apply! LOuis

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-11-2009, 02:21 PM:

Almost all the 70mm houses here that ran cinemecanica machines ran doubled 70mm reels

Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 01-11-2009, 02:36 PM:

Worked 3 proj cinerama[How the West was Won],whatever year that was at the Esquire[now Imax]in Sacramento and we had lifts for the reels by each proj. Had a 4 man crew, one on each proj,one on the sound transport. Center proj guy was the "leadman". Also worked "My Fair Lady"70mm changeover at the old Alhambra Theatre and there were two of us. Worked there over a year or more every Sat&Sun nite same print and we did a good job. You changed over into your machine and didnt leave it`s side untill the next c.o.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-11-2009, 05:30 PM:

Roland Lataille's CINERAMA HISTORY site has a picture of the reel elevator system, which was originally in the July 8, 1963 issue of BOXOFFICE.

3 Strip Cinerama Reel Elevators

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 01-11-2009, 06:21 PM:

I think each city was different based on union contracts. In Portland, OR 70mm was 2 man from the start (1955 Oklahoma at the Broadway Theatre)until the early 70's when the contract was changed to 1 man for all size films. 3 strip Cinerama was always 4 man.
Dick

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-11-2009, 08:43 PM:

Great pictures, Mark. The Seattle Cinerama still has reel hoists. Don't know if they're original though. The current Cinerama projectors aren't.

In it's original configuration, the curtain traveled through those front exit alcoves, and accumulated into a compartment on the other side. The theatre had to post staff members at those exits whenever the full screen was opened.

Dick, maybe my recollection is wrong about 5 operators. That's how I remember it, but '63 was a few years ago! [Smile]

I sure would have liked to see how much of a challenge it might have been to keep 3 arc lamps matched up through the entire reel.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 01-11-2009, 11:13 PM:

This is from here, sorry to drift the thread:

Over a dozen technicians were required to run the early Cinerama showings but the crew came down to a maximum of six as the system was refined. The crew consisted of three projectionists operating the Able, Baker, and Charlie projectors, an operator in charge of the sound dubber, a control engineer that monitored the show and directed the four operators to make adjustments as necessary though the system had become rugged enough that minimal adjustments were required once the show was up and running.

Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 01-12-2009, 05:27 AM:

I have never heard of the term "stacked",until mention of it here. All the 70mm features I ran had fairly loaded reels such as Lawrence of Arabia, The Alamo, West Side Story, My Fair Lady, Camelot, Is Paris Burning, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Oliver, Sweet Charity, Funny Girl, Waterloo, Cromwell, and others, but only Battle of the Bulge was on smaller reels.

This was a 70mm Cinerama print and I got an urgent message from Warners 20 minutes before the start on the opening day, to remove the Cinerama title. We only had a Todd AO type, slight curve, in the screen and naturally, no Cinerama lens. Warners obviously didn't want the Cinerama name associated with our presentation for good reason. The result was pretty awful with the tanks bending away at the sides of the screen as they passed.

Very interesing to see the photo of the 10,000 foot 35mm reel lifter. These reels were pretty heavy too with the same size shaft. The trick with large reels was to fix your eyes on the end of the shaft as you lifted the reel which would then obstruct your view of the shaft, engauging it with the centre bore of the reel first time. If you missed, it was easier to bring it down to the floor and have another go until you struck it dead centre. If you missed and wriggled it round, invariably the hinged end of the shaft would flip over. There was a hinge for the 70mm length of shaft and another one at 90 degrees for 35mm length so you had a great chance of failure. By that time you had fatigue wobbles with the heavy weight of a loaded reel. You had no choice but to bring it down to the floor, take a few deep breaths and have another go and hope that the out going reel on the sreen didn't run out before you had completed your mission.

They were great days though. Isn't it strange how you can remember the make and model of projectors, where you were, the year and events that were happening in your life, by the title of the films you ran?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-12-2009, 06:53 AM:

The 70mm reel was designed around Todd-AO at 30fps. Its dimensions were a 22" flange with an 8" hub. As such, with the exception of Oklahoma! and Around The World in 80 Days, most every other feature was at 24fps.

Furthermore, most 70mm features made before 1980 had their reels balanced to work with 35mm magnetic acetate on their 15" house reels. Therefore, a typical 70mm feature would have a reel that appeared very un-full.

I would never tolerate building up the reels. With magnetic sound, splicing reels together always telegraphed the reel change since the splice would hit the soundhead first. The human brain is very well conditioned for sound to occur after image, but not vice-versa. That is why sound preceding image lip-sync is much more noticable than sound laging after image on lip-sync.

By and large, most every 70mm feature I handled (and there were a GREAT many of them), the reels were typically 1/2-2/3rds full with some even less so, depending how editing went after the initial reel balancing.

Steve

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 01-12-2009, 07:59 AM:

quote: Tim Reed
Well, back in the nitrate days, the reason they wanted an operator for each machine was so there'd always be a man stationed beside the projector, who could quickly shut it down in case of a film break. That was the reason the union gave, at least. Maybe the 70mm practice was some kind of holdover?

In upstate NY (Syracuse, Utica, Albany,and Rochester) 35mm was two man until about 1960. Buffalo still had two man booths in the downtown houses and drive ins till the late sixties. I think that when the one man shift was negotiated for 35mm the exhibitors agreed to its continuation for 70 as an incentive.
70mm was one man every where by the early seventies.
Bob

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 01-12-2009, 09:05 AM:

I've never ran 70mm but apparently the movie Elizabeth was the last movie shot and released in it and it had a total of 20 reels, though some of them were 5-7 minutes long.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-12-2009, 09:41 AM:

Chris, I believe the film you are thinking of is Kenneth Branaugh's HAMLET from late 1996.

Scott Marshall has some video of the Paris theatre running this film here.

As for CINERAMA, I think some of the later installations (with 1 booth) only used 3 operators without a control engineer.

Many of the late 70's & 80's 70mm films locally were run by one operator. At one fabled location, the 70mm projector and platter were set open in the lobby for all to see. The 70mm film made a nice dust magnet to attract dirt and smoke from the lobby. Not the best way to run 70mm, but this theatre had more 70mm screenings than any other in the area.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-12-2009, 12:49 PM:

Dick might recall the old Moyer house in his area, which had its projectors mounted on a catwalk above the concessions. The machines shot over the heads of lobby patrons, and through large windows at the back of each auditorium. I always wondered if concession activities below contributed to any problems above.

At least one of the Star Trek or Star Wars films was shown in 70mm there. Not sure which... it was back in the early '80s.

Trying to remember... was that the "Rose Moyer"?

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-12-2009, 01:54 PM:

quote: Bill Gabel
When the AVCO was a triplex it had two operators, one in the downstairs booth. Which was equipped with two V-8's and large Cinerama size style reels. For 35mm we put the whole feature on one large reel, for 70MM we broke the feature into two parts because of the weight. All three rooms had the Pec-1000 (I think that was the model number). The upstairs booths was one large booth long booth. They were equipped with two V-8's projectors in both theatres and did auto changeovers with CP-200's in all booths. The reels were large 6K size reels.

Bill, thanks for the corrections..it was over 20 years ago when I made my last visit to the Avco (first run of "Top Gun") and I do seem to get dyslexic memory as the years go on...

One thing I do question though..are you sure about the two operators/shift? I only recall dealing with Ivan on all my visits there and don't remember ever seeing a second projectionist there.....

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-12-2009, 03:23 PM:

Tony, the two men was when the theatre opened long time ago. But one man operated both booths when I was around there. I remember Ivan , Paul , Paul and OJ (no not that one). The last Local 150 guys in there was OJ and Jerry. (he is the reason for using platters on all screenings there)

You said First Run of "Top Gun", that opened over at National in 70MM (May 16-July 1) and moved over to Regent (July 2) and back to the National (Aug. 8) and then to the Bruin (Sept. 26).

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-12-2009, 04:14 PM:

Mark's link to the Paris Theatre's showing of Kenneth Bragnah's HAMLET in 70mm was interesting. There was also a link on Utube on London's Odeon Hammersmith theatre operation in their projection booth that made me regret not watching a movie there last year when I was in the UK.

Regarding theatre staffing, a 70mm showing of Tim Burton's BATMAN made front page news when the Honolulu Advertiser reported the accidental trashing of a considerable amount of footage at the Waikiki #3 when a projectionist working alone was careless. A backup 35mm print was put into service and played in that format for one week until Warner Brothers decided to send a 70mm replacement reel. I am glad they did this because I have not seen the movie in 70mm yet. I was not so lucky when it happened again at the Kapiolani when a 70mm print of WHO FRAMMED ROGER RABBIT was badly damaged during the third week run of the film and I had not seen it yet. When I did, I was forced to see it in 35mm and I was pissed!

-Claude:

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 01-12-2009, 05:11 PM:

Jack, that was the "Rose Moyer". I always thought that was bad for the film. I think it was built to be easily converted to a wherehouse if the theatre didn't work out. They did run a early "Star Trek". "Starwars" ran at the "Westgate". I think both in 70mm. Portland had, at least 10 - 15 houses equipped for 70mm in the 70's.

The Portland "Fox" ran "Sound of Music" in 70mm for 2 1/2 years with the same print. They used Century JJ2 projectors. Most Portland area theatres used Norelco machines.

Dick

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 01-12-2009, 07:46 PM:

The Hammersmith Odeon hasn't shown films for a long time, it is now called the Apollo and is one of the major live venues in London. I've seen a stage show here and it is great. Sad thing is that had the place remained as a cinema it would have been carved up beyond recognition by now.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-12-2009, 07:49 PM:

Not counting the Kokusai (Daiei) and the Toho, Honolulu's two first run Japanese movie theatres that had 70mm equipment but did not use them and the two IMAX theatres, there were a total of twelve theatres that were able to show the wide format film in the city. One of them, the Kailua was a drive in movie theatre that used the projectors from the Hilton Hawaiian Village Dome theatre after it had closed. The Kailua presented only one film in 70mm and it was MY FAIR LADY after it had completed it's reserved seat engagement at the Cinerama. Today, the Kahala #1 is the only 70mm theatre in Honolulu but I doubt it will ever show any film in that format again.

-Claude

Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 01-13-2009, 11:37 PM:

Dick is correct the theatres was the Rose Moyer. I worked for Moyer from 1979-1988. We ran Jedi interlocked in the two large houses at the Rose Moyer. Star Trek the motion picture was 35mm. The 70mm equipment at the Rose Moyer was installed for reissue of Sleeping Beauty. Tanasbourne and Bagdad got 70mm for Quest for Fire. By the way Dick. Pete Kerchinsky says Hi!

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-18-2009, 01:24 PM:

Coincidentally this topic is to be addressed shortly at www.in70mm.com in the 65/70mm Workshop section.

The information we have obtained is pretty much the same as on this thread.

A former colleague who worked in the London West End in the 1960s and 1970s recounted how chain hoists were also used when towers for 35mm were first brought in.

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 01-19-2009, 10:51 PM:

From one of the Pauls that Bill Gabel mentioned in his post earlier, about the Avco -- a few final (?) reminiscences from the good ol' days of the AVCO in Westwood:

It was a "two man house" from the earliest days of operation (opened in, approx. '72 or '73 or so), one man downstairs for the big theatre, and one man upstairs for the twins.

The first time I ever worked there was in about 1977, on a relief basis, running "The Turning Point". At that time, it was two man operation, and I was downstairs.

When I started working there full time, which was in January, 1984, it had gone one man, and one guy did everything, upstairs and downstairs. I made the joke that working there (running up and down the two flights of stairs) must be equivalent to "dog lives", in that our lifespan would be shortened by the occasional panic runs up and down the steps. But now, in retrospect, maybe that stairway extended our lives, rather that shortening them.

We had a wonderful long run of "Out of Africa" (1985, into 1986), and that one was long enough that we had 3 reels of 70mm downstairs, necessitating a change-out of reels to complete the movie. We'd leave built-up reel #1 tails out, put on the smaller, shorter reel #3, and then rewind both during the intermission, to end up with reel #1 ready to thread for the next show. There was no lift, so removing a full reel from the upper (feed) spindle was completely impossible.

The PEC-1000 automation (and, more particularly, the cue pickup for it) was problematic. I hated it. It was a major accomplishment to get the cue sensor into precisely the "right" position so it would reliably catch the foil cue (which, in 70mm, moves a bit faster than 35mm) for the changeover. And every now and then it missed. Damn! As often as we could, we'd try to be downstairs for the changes, but sometimes scheduling just didn't allow for it, and of course **THAT** would be the time the cue failed to trigger the changeover. Loverly.

As for Bill's comments on the sound equipment, he's right, but that was a bit later on. When I first started there, it was a li'l ol' CP-50 upstairs there in Cinema 2, as it was known at the time -- the smallest of the theatres there. Later upgraded to the CP-200.

I've got photos of some of these things, esp. the colossal reels for 70mm in the big theatre (Cinema 1), and one of these days I'll have time to dig them out and post them...