Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Neutronic info needed

This is topic Neutronic info needed in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Thomas Moore (Member # 3427) on 01-22-2009, 06:37 PM:

I have the manual for my neutronic platter system, however i don't see any info on replacing the motor brushes. any info or links would be greatly appreciated. also can someone shoot me a link on "brain" tweaks and repairs. thank you [beer]

Posted by Dan Reiter (Member # 1386) on 01-23-2009, 01:58 PM:

Neumade is more or less out of business from what I understand. I remember the company using a few different motors, so some important information will be the manufacturer of the motor. Some were Graingers, others were not. Replacing the brushes is typically just removing the brush covers, pulling the old assembly out, replace, and re-assemble. Pretty easy.

Mike Avallone at BIG SKY may be able to help you more in getting parts, I don't know about manuals or instructions.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-24-2009, 12:49 AM:

quote: Dan Reiter
Neumade is more or less out of business from what I understand.

Where did you hear that??

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-24-2009, 07:38 AM:

FYI: the entire staff of Xetron left to start Big Sky, when Xetron moved from New Jersey to Connecticut.
If you need detailed technical information on 4-20 year old Xetron equipment, you will find it at Big Sky. Louis

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-24-2009, 09:38 AM:

Or, you will find it at Neumade. Greg Jones is still there. I talk to him about platter, console, and automation issues with 20 year old Xetron and Neumade equipment.

Unfortunately, John, who was most helpful, is no longer there, but he checks in here regularly.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-24-2009, 11:01 AM:

John works for Strong now.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-24-2009, 01:46 PM:

Wow...what a bunck of misinformation here...

Everyone did NOT leave Neumade to form Big Sky...MANY left Neumade to form Big Sky. It is no accident that the Big Sky stuff often has interchangable parts with Neumade/Xetron...when your chief engineer moves from one to another.

Greg at Neumade is tops and the folks at Big Sky are great too.

As for Neumade...lets face it...the cinema equipment biz is not what it used to be for film based manufacturers. Neumade, at its heart, is a metal fab house. To that end, they continue to manufacture metal based stuff. Even film based stuff. Recently we took delivery of Lens Cabinets (LC-2s), roller trucks (RTS-3), custom Roller Trucks (for 70mm film)...parts cabinets....etc. Do you have to place your orders with some lead time? Sure...so? How can one predict what to stock in today's market?

As to the Neutronic platter...it has never been on of my favorites...especially the payout and control circuit. There have been several incarnations of the "pods". I'm not sure they ever published calibration instructions for all of them (or any of them) though I recall seeing some sort of calibration instructions for them.

Steve

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-24-2009, 05:14 PM:

Steve is right, a bunch of misinformation ... but I admit that is understandable, given the current state of 35mm equipment sales and the economy in general.

First, Neumade is not out of business. Do they have as much business as they did 15 years ago? No, but no 35mm business does. Also, Neumade still wants to support as much as they can for as long as they can. In fact, now that I think about it, I can't think of any product Neumade stopped supporting where the raw parts were still avaiable from the individual manufacturers at a reasonable cost and avaiablity.

Several different manufacturers' motors were used for the Neutronic platter (which was also referred to as the NXP - the NXR was the older varic design.) The motors that Neumade used were usually a company's standard model with 'upgrades.' For example, the bearings were a better grade because of the sideways load.

As Dan said, maintaining brushes is pretty simple. Since the motor is mounted on the platter with the brushes on 'top,' a problem can be that the brush dust falls down into the body and lower bearing of the motor. So a suggestion is to blow the motor once in a while.

Regarding the control pod (the box with the control PC board, inside) there were three different versions. Very few 1st versions were made, so I doubt anyone has one. The 2nd version was used up until about 2004 when the 3rd version was done. The 2nd version can be identified if there are two trimpot adjustments on the PCB; the 3rd has only one.

The 2nd version has a problem; the PWM IC used often becomes unstable after 10 years. This is a known problem and is why the IC was discontinued. The problem shows itself several different ways, but usually starts by causing the platter to 'creep' on power up. Often this can be adjusted by slightly tweeking the low-speed pot on the PCB, but eventually it will run too erratically to be relied on.

The 3rd version is a plug-in replacement. It uses a Microchip microcontroller with a PWM output. It has gone through 3-4 revisions, so is quite reliable. The designer was Noel Mackisoc who sadly passed away recently.

I had a 'backburner' project going to update the platter manual which I was not able to finish. For example, the manual still shows the 'pre-polyester days' payout head, which was changed. The platter was designed in the middle to late 1980's, and most of the drawings are on regular old pencil and paper. This made it tougher to update since the drawings really have to be completely redrawn. But, I will try to get what I had done so far, turn them into pdf's and send off to Brad to put on the manuals section. It won't be a 'finished' document, but it might help someone.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-24-2009, 05:19 PM:

If you have bad motors our full time motor guy does rebuild them if after inspection it is possible to do so and it usually is. Sadly... we have alot of Neutronic Platters in this area to keep going... I'd really rather have a bunch of Super Platters to maintain than these things!

BTW: Tim, Are you expecting a copter to come in and land on that new "Flat Top"?

Mark

Posted by Dan Reiter (Member # 1386) on 01-26-2009, 07:43 AM:

Thank you on the update on Nuemade.

Since leaving BIG SKY two years ago, I was unsure of how Greg Jones and the company was doing. Glad to hear he is still there. I worked for them back in 1992 to 1997, and always liked Greg.

Posted by Gregory N. Jones (Member # 805) on 01-28-2009, 07:02 AM:

Hey Gang,

Neumade is still around despite the rumors that we are out of business (I can guess where those rumors started). We have shifted our primary focus to sub-contracting with quite a bit of success. Thank you to Steve, John and Ken for pointing this out to all of you a few days ago.

Neumade has been in this industry for close to a century so we are not going to stop supporting our products. It might take you a little longer to receive some of your orders because we are not stocking items like we have in the past. It just doesn't make sense to put all of our resources into this industry.

Here's an example: in today's Theatre market it costs us $100 to manufacture an item. We are lucky to be getting $150 for that product on the market, that does not cover overhead when you operate a 60,000 square foot factory. In the sub-contracting market that same $100 it costs to make the product, we are getting $500 to $600 in return, minimum. I can go into many reasons why the film industry is in this mess but I will keep my opinions to myself.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this and if anyone has an issue, please call instead of just writing misinformation down in a post.

Thank you,

Gregory N Jones
President
Neumade Products Corp
203-270-1100
gjones@neumade.com

Posted by Dan Reiter (Member # 1386) on 01-28-2009, 07:55 AM:

Greg,

Thank you for the update and information! [thumbsup]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-28-2009, 08:54 AM:

Gred has always been great to deal with and is the future of Neumade! Louis

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-28-2009, 07:28 PM:

I have posted some pictures of the manufacturing area at Neumade, just for anyone interested. Several people who tour the plant comment on how they had no idea how large it is.

I realize it is generally poor manners to blatantly advertise a company or product on a forum, but I respectfully ask to be allowed this, given the nature of this particular topic.

The pictures below form a sort of panorama, from left to right of about 70% of Neumade's manufacturing floor. This 70% figure does not include the offices, two cafeterias, and engineering areas.

I took these pictures while standing on top of the powder-coat paint line (you can see the hanging conveyer at the bottom.) This is the machine-shop area with a Bridgeport and a Haas VF4 vertical milling maching with pallet changer, Hardage CNC lathe and several smaller lathes, drill presses grinders, etc, etc.

This is where the platters are put together, but there's so many shelves and cabinets, it's hard to see exactly where.

This is where stuff to be painted is kept. At the back right, you can see four full-size loading docks.

Four years ago, it cost over $2000 just for the gas to run the furnaces for the powder-coat paint line. At that rate, you gotta do alot of painting all at once to make it worthwhile. That's why there is a wait for product sometimes.

Thanks for letting me rant!