Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Intermittent question

This is topic Intermittent question in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jeff Else (Member # 4063) on 02-09-2009, 02:11 PM:

just a general curiosity... is it possible for image instability to come from a bad/worn/failing intermittent? I operated a few Kinoton FP20's that are now out of service that I never could seem to get a stable image from. None of the intermittents ultimately failed, and my knowledge is limited so perhaps there were more adjustments to be done..

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-09-2009, 02:31 PM:

Yes it is possible, but with FP-20's the most likely causes of image problems are worn nylon skates/runners (Gate and trap rails, respectively); insufficient skate tension; skate height incorrect.

The intermittents on Norelco/kinotons are pretty durable. If it is either knocking or making a noise like gravel rolling around with no film, it is bad.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-09-2009, 10:13 PM:

Occasional answer! (look at header.) Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-09-2009, 10:27 PM:

You probably had bad framing couplings in them! They still suffer from that same problem today.

Mark

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-09-2009, 10:35 PM:

Louis, that was really bad. [Smile]

Mark: You're right, I had forgotten about that possibility. I guess I'm spoiled with my FP38's which barely have 400 hours each on them. [Smile]

Posted by Jeff Else (Member # 4063) on 02-12-2009, 06:08 PM:

how do i check to see if the framing couplings are good?(keeping in mind these machines are not connected to power) If they are bad, how expensive/difficult are they to repair? I may be recommending these to be sold to a small, indepentent art-house, so I'm wondering how good of an option they are...

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-12-2009, 07:20 PM:

Since the FP20 design is extremely gentle on film it is ideal for rep/art houses that get damaged prints
you may be able to feel play in the shaft by rocking the sprocket
also check for endplay
but you really need to set them up and run them

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-12-2009, 10:10 PM:

I agree Gord... I've seen scotch taped film go through just like it was a regular splice... The DP-70 can also do that.

Mark

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-13-2009, 01:29 AM:

I second both Gordon and Mark,, I just had a print with several FEET of severe damage pass thru my FP-38 tonight, it made a lot of noise but the picture was surprisingly steady, though the focus went crazy form the wrinkled mylar..

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-13-2009, 09:09 AM:

Actually the DP75 wins for handling shrunken film hands down that odd multi curved gate forces almost anything to lie flat
on a side note my Motiograph AAA machines can run almost anything thrown at them even nitrate so shrunk the perfs are visable on the screen [Smile]

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 02-15-2009, 02:33 PM:

Don't forget my beloved Century DAW's. I saw these run an acetate print of "Flesh Gordon" with one set of legs stripped. It jumped a bit and both the Chief Projectionist and myself both had near heart attacks, but it went through for 7 shows that week.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 02-15-2009, 02:37 PM:

quote: Ian Parfrey
set of legs stripped

What is a stripped leg?

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 02-15-2009, 02:43 PM:

Hi Eric.
My Chief used to refer a set of perforations that are torn the entire length of a spool as "a stripped leg". It just kinda stuck.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-16-2009, 10:07 PM:

..and if you can run a reel with one side all stripped out and keep the show on the screen for the duration of the run, you definitely consider yourself "the Projectionist."

That was one small problem with IB prints when they get some age on them: film stock becomes brittle with age and the sprocketholes are the first to expose the brittleness of the film.

Been there and done that with all off the "kiddie mats" that I ran...and some of the prints that arrived at our theatre.. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 02-17-2009, 02:30 AM:

Hi Monte.

How true that is. This was in the days of switching a single print between two theatres, where the first 6000' spool would screen as the first show and as soon as it finished, a car-hop would throw it in the back of his car and motor to the other theatre where it would screen as soon as it arrived. This usually happened to both prints of the double feature. I cant say the print left our drive-in in any better condition than when it arrived but we never had a film-break. I am still amazed at how the Century's passed that print. Ahhhh for the days of (old, brittle) acetate! Dave Miller was my Chief that year.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-17-2009, 09:42 AM:

It's a good thing your car hop never ran out of gas like that kid bicycling prints in Cineme Paradiso!!!

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 02-17-2009, 10:49 AM:

As long as they're not equipped with remote/power framing/focus everything is easy to fix. The caveat with the power framing/focus is that it needs to be removed to replace the framing coupler or remove the soundhead. To the potential causes of instability I'd add a bent skate post (close the gate too hard without a skate in and you can bend it) and a worn intermittent sprocket (it'd be loud). Be sure to tighten the lock screw after adjusting the skate post height or it'll work its way back down. Follow the instruction manual for installing and adjusting the intermittent sprocket and end play adjustment.