Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Bulk trailer recycling?

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Posted by Jon P. Inghram (Member # 4125) on 02-27-2009, 01:06 PM:

We've been putting trailers together into reel sized spools and sending then back in the film cans, but it looks like we'll run out of film cans long before we'll have made a sizable dent in the trailer boxes.

Does anyone know if regular plastic recyclers accept film?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-27-2009, 02:25 PM:

If you listed them in the "Wanted/For Sale" forum at a price of postage + $1.00 you might be able to get rid of a few of them and raise a few bucks to buy booth supplies with. [Big Grin]

Didn't we have a "Trailer Swap" thread going a while back?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-27-2009, 02:34 PM:

You could just load a good sized bunch of trailers in a 5gal BIB box (take the bag out), seal up the front good, put the depot's address on them and send them back that way....

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 03-03-2009, 07:42 AM:

Are trailers copyright protected? Can you legally sell them?

I wouldn't mind selling the pile I have if it were legal.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-03-2009, 08:43 AM:

Trailers pre-early-1970s are PD if they don't have an explicit copyright notice on them (few did).

Modern trailers are copyrighted, which means that they can't be copied or exhibited without permission from the copyright holder. This does not really have much to do with whether or not it is legal to sell the physical object, however.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that the film distributors would argue that trailers are their property and cannot be sold by others, as ownership rights were never conferred. Would this stand up in court? I have no idea, but that doesn't stop lots of Ebay sellers of posters, trailers, lobby cards, and other promotional material. It would probably be a bad idea to try to sell anything for a current or recent release, at least.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 03-03-2009, 09:14 PM:

The reason I asked about legality of selling 35mm trailers is that most of what I find online is usually downloads or other non-film versions of the trailer, but few actual film. I have seen some 35mm online for sale, like a pack of 10 assorted for $5, with little interest by buyers.

I always save those that become award winners or others that might have some special interest to them. Maybe someday someone would buy them, I don't know, but the pile grows.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-03-2009, 10:48 PM:

Someone I know... can't remember who exactly... had this problem with trailers he was selling. He was threatened by one of the studios. He then promptly sent the studio a bill for storage of all it's trailers he had accumulated over the years. He never heard back from the studio again!

Mark

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 03-04-2009, 01:11 AM:

Once it goes in the trash it becomes public property and you can pretty much do what you want with it (as a physical item). This does not mean you can show it on the screen or sell it for the content of the pictures, but in the end the trick is proving you got it out of the trash in the first place.

Posted by Bob Jones (Member # 1756) on 03-04-2009, 01:22 AM:

Someone I know... can't remember who exactly... had this problem with trailers he was selling. He was threatened by one of the studios. He then promptly sent the studio a bill for storage of all it's trailers he had accumulated over the years. He never heard back from the studio again!

Mark

LOVE IT!!!! CLASSIC!!!

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 03-04-2009, 09:17 AM:

Be a little hard proving I got the trailers from the trash, being I'm a projectionist!

I like sending the studio a bill for storage! Priceless!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-04-2009, 10:10 AM:

quote:
We've been putting trailers together into reel sized spools and sending then back in the film cans,

You can send back any trailer from any studio in your Technicolor reel cans, but it's not necessary to splice them together...just throw them in loose.

quote:
He then promptly sent the studio a bill for storage of all it's trailers he had accumulated over the years. He never heard back from the studio again!

If I was the studio I would never have sent him another trailer again either. They are the property of the studios, after all.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-04-2009, 10:28 AM:

What about "Doctrine of First Sale"? Do studios actually sell trailers or do they lease or loan them?

If you rightfully BUY a trailer you have the right to do anything you want with it as long as you don't publicly display it. (Except if you are advertising for particular movie that will play in your theater.)

I have never seen any kind of contract that says trailers are sold, leased or loaned. Does that get covered in some kind of master contract that theaters agree to when they lease movies from studios?

We buy trailers all the time. That's usually the only way we can get them. We're such "small potatoes" that studios virtually never send us trailers unless we pay for them.

For all these years, I have been working under the assumption that paying for it means it's yours.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-04-2009, 10:48 AM:

quote:
He then promptly sent the studio a bill for storage of all it's trailers he had accumulated over the years. He never heard back from the studio again!

After which, I would expect never to get trailers from that studio again.

Not really sure how you'd explain why you had a lot of trailers to "store" in the first place. The studios have always had one method or another for returns.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-04-2009, 11:11 AM:

quote: Randy Stankey
We buy trailers all the time. That's usually the only way we can get them. We're such "small potatoes" that studios virtually never send us trailers unless we pay for them.

Randy - I can't imagine a place that's smaller potatoes than us...but we usually get the majority of trailers we need these days. Do you play mostly older titles or something along those lines?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-04-2009, 11:51 AM:

Guys,

Being "green" is great and all, but it is ridiculous in this scenario. Please don't send trailers back to the depots. They don't want them. Just throw them away. No one is tracking trailer returns. Nobody cares.

Also their main recycler has now refused to take the mylar for recycling. China isn't buying it anymore and they aren't even taking our cardboard.

So when you send trailers back to the depots, they are required to box up the film, pay to ship it to L.A. where it is then promptly shredded and then more money must be spent to pay to place it in the landfill. You aren't being "green" by any means. In fact all you are doing is causing more oil to be burned, etc.

And if you put yourself in their shoes, imagine having to lug around 500 "Fox boxes" worth of prints on a given day. Those godamned boxes are heavy enough as it is! When you stuff trailers in it you can bring that box up to 100 pounds. Why don't YOU try loading up a Fox box and spend 8 hours picking it up and carrying it around the booth one day???

So throw the trailers away with yesterday's newspaper. They are worth as much. If that's still not good enough for you, at least show some compassion for the underpaid depot workers and their backs.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-04-2009, 12:17 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Randy - I can't imagine a place that's smaller potatoes than us...but we usually get the majority of trailers we need these days. Do you play mostly older titles or something along those lines?

http://pac.mercyhurst.edu/events/index.php?type=FILM

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-04-2009, 01:02 PM:

Several points:

Randy, the first sale doctrine definitely does not apply. The studios do not sell the trailers to you. Even when you order trailers from TES, they charge you shipping on trailers, they do not charge you for the trailers themselves (and realize that a trailer is probably $50 worth of processed film). There are no "EDB" trailers to muddy the waters.
Most trailers explicitly state that they're the property of studios on the labels. In fact, Fox used to include a letter from Branden d Miller with almost every trailer order saying the same. And remember those return labels from Paramount directing returns to Premiere House?
Randy and I are both smaller than you, Mike, because we are non-theatricals, and at the total bottom of the food chain. If you think your release window is shrinking, try ours. (Oh look! Slumdog Millionaire won too many Oscars. Now we can't show it when we advertised it...)
The availability of trailers has gotten much better in the past few years. It used to be quite common for trailers to be unavailabile ("backordered"); but recently, I can't remember the last time we were unable to get a trailer we needed in at least some format (not nec. flat; sometimes we're stuck with only scope when we want flat, but that's not a big deal).
Recycling of trailers was more important before the cyan conversion, because extracting the silver from the film was worth doing. Now that most trailers are cyan, silver is not so much of an issue. I don't really know what the pros and cons are of trailer recyling nowadays.
Brad, I don't think shredded film goes in a landfill -- are you sure? I believe they get turned into fox boxes (and other low-grade plastics) instead.

--jhawk

Posted by Mitchel Monger (Member # 2454) on 03-08-2009, 07:38 AM:

In the past couple of months I've received 2 notices from TES and one from Fox asking that trailers be returned. I'm getting two cans ready to ship and in them are new green stickers which say, "THINK GREEN-Please participate in the Trailer Recycling Program. When returning feature release prints, please include any studios' used or outdated trailers. We will dispose of them in an environmentally proper manner. Thank you in advance for your cooperation".

I'd like to know more about this program of theirs that they keep pestering me about. What exactly is the "environmentally proper manner" of disposal? I'm all for it if they're doing it right.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-08-2009, 09:24 AM:

I was told that mylar has a 90%+ recycle ratio, back to more mylar film. If this is so or nearly so, it would be in our mutual interest to recycle to the extent the car battery guys do. . . .nearly 100%. Louis

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 03-08-2009, 09:52 PM:

Would it be irony or something else if the old trailers were recycled into digital cinema equipment and/or digital storage devices?

Heh.

Sorry, I don't have any real input on the topic. But thanks for the discussion!

Brad, you sure sound positive on all that. How can we verify what is happening with these trailers getting sent back? (How'd you find out? For example.)

cheers!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-09-2009, 02:11 AM:

Simple. I know people who are in charge of "recycling" these trailers.

Penn and Teller did a good Bullshit episode on recycling. I recommend everyone watch it. Here is a link.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-09-2009, 09:46 AM:

I would rather trailers go into a California landfill than a Montana one, so into the boxes they will go.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-10-2009, 09:18 AM:

Also, there's some amount of re-use. We recently got some used trailers from Technicolor for Let the Right One In (which we're showing this coming weekend). When we'd tried to order trailers a while ago, they were out. I don't know exactly how this ties in with returned trailers, but used trailers have to come from somewhere.

--jhawk

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 03-10-2009, 02:57 PM:

That Penn & Teller Vid is fascinating one point I disagree with is people would rather have a pointless crappy job than no job so it does help the economy there. To a point.
Now I do not remember where I heard this but I do believe the the shredded film is being recycled into home insulation material. Now weather that is accurate or not....?

just my $0.02

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-11-2009, 03:32 AM:

That is not accurate. That is a very old story from a film collector who used to buy prints from the studios with the explanation that he was using it for insulation.

This was in Florida and pre-polyester base stock. All of his prints went VS from the climate, so he might have just as well used it as insulation.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 03-11-2009, 08:57 AM:

I always wondered how Roddy kept his house warm/cool.

Too soon?

Can any Australians tell me what happens to our trailers after they get sent back, or if the distributors even care if they come back at all?

Posted by Jon P. Inghram (Member # 4125) on 03-28-2009, 09:32 PM:

The bag-in-box trick has worked well, thanks! Apparently they're just going to haul them to one of our other theaters which has more room and just stick 'em in a closet. [Big Grin]

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-29-2009, 01:31 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Penn and Teller did a good Bullshit episode on recycling. I recommend everyone watch it. Here is a link.

It certainly is interesting, but it raises more questions than it answers. For instance:

They don't really address any of the issues related to harvesting the raw materials except for tree farms for paper and aluminum for cans.

They don't address the issue of plastics being a petroleum based product or how much petroleum is used (or saved) by recycling plastics.

They don't address how the costs of recycling change when the energy is produced from renewable sources - or even incinerated trash.

They don't address the environmental impact of incinerating trash to generate electricity.

I'm not calling bullshit on their claims, I'm just saying it's a bias "documentary" that doesn't really go any further than the claims they are trying to refute.

I don't want this to spiral into any kind of political debate. I'll just say the video is an interesting conversation starter, but not much more.

[ 03-29-2009, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Justin Hamaker ]

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 03-29-2009, 03:55 AM:

After watching same Penn and Teller episode, I no longer feel guilty when I toss my newspaper in the trash.

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 03-29-2009, 06:53 PM:

In my "former life" I once built 3 miles of electric fence using posts made from recycled diapers.

I'm not big on recycling anyway.

As far as trailers go, I hardly ever have any room in the technicolor cans that go through our booth. Hell, the DTS discs usually don't fit, let alone a pack of trailers...

Thanks!