Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Schematic for Cinemation Mark 4

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-16-2009, 07:56 PM:

Does anyone have one I can copy? Also that sheet showing what relay is which.

The Mark 4's seemed to have come in at least three slightly different versions, but each are probably basically the same. The one I used for many years had a telephone terminal board you soldered wires to. The others were one that had a 'bolt-board' with threaded studs/nuts to connect the wires, and a third that had more modern wire compression type terminals. But I think these are wire internally the same.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-16-2009, 10:27 PM:

Sorry, no drawing.

Personally, I don't think even two are exactly identical.

BTW: I saw a double Mark IV at the Odeon in London; had two internal doors. (Mark III?) Louis

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-15-2010, 10:29 AM:

Hi, I'm just bumping this up if anyone happened to come across a schematic.

I worked with one so many times in the early 1980's, I should have had it memorized by now...! I would sometimes think I heard that, 'ka-click, ka-click...' in my sleep.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-15-2010, 12:24 PM:

They were available in different versions especially the ones sold by EPRAD
There is a company in the UK that still supports cinemation I believe

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-15-2010, 01:54 PM:

Oh man some of the older National Amusements houses in the Boston Area had those, I swear no two were alike. I always pictured some old british ladies sitting around big table wiring up those Mark 4's They should have printed different manulas depending on wether you got a "Beatrice" or a "Mabel" [Smile]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-15-2010, 02:07 PM:

They are very simple
the pulse advanced the stepper that pulsed the entire buss line
There was a small timming cam for the changeover functions
The tags on the terminals usually refer to relay contact numbers

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-15-2010, 03:16 PM:

I agree that the theory they operate inder is simple but tracing out a problem can be quite tricky as wiring and components vary from unit to unit even within the same complex. There is no standard color code to the wiring and even no standard to the layout of the wiring. The hardest part is tracing which wire goes where for what. Once you have done that the rest is easy but it takes up a lot of time to trace out these machines.

My favorite pin programmable step automation is the one that Louis' company Entertainment Engineering makes. National Amusements used these exlusively and I always found them very reliable and easy to use.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-15-2010, 04:18 PM:

We had afew of them at Mann Theatres in Los Angeles and at GCC Sherman Oaks twin and a few other GCC houses. Very little problems out of them.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-15-2010, 06:24 PM:

Sean; thanks for the kind words.

When Glenn Terrell was alive he had 2 or 3 different drawings for the Mark IV. You might try Jon Kidder at National Amusement in Boston. Likewise, Lonnie Jennings might have a copy; he was well versed in those things. Louis

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-16-2010, 08:22 AM:

I just want to clarify my stance here, I am not saying the Mark IV was a bad automation in fact I beleive for it's time it was very very good, and the ones I had in service were pretty reliable. the only issue I have with them is it made it tough for me to work on them where they had been modded or were manufactured with different wiring than others. thats all. [beer]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-16-2010, 11:07 AM:

At least it is a wireharness to trace out not an inner layer of a multiplane circuit board

http://www.tlsuk.com/page18.html
these guys might be able to help

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 02-28-2010, 05:30 AM:

Hey John I got both !! [Big Grin]

The manual is "CINEMATION" MK-IV Phase-2 Special Production 48 x 15 Way, Export Model Automatic Control Equipment (a 16-page manual).....also when I was a young projectionist I worked for General Cinema & they had this automation, as a young tech I listed the relays in a drawing & label each relay function.... I can send you a copy if you need....

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-28-2010, 06:00 PM:

Hi, Don; That's great! I remember the schematic was on a large sheet of paper. I really don't need the manual. Perhaps you could bring the schematic to a Kinko's or some place like that and have them scan it and create a pdf. It costs about $30 which I can send to you. That way we can put in in the download section here, too.