Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Face Audio amplifiers for cinema?

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-08-2009, 12:41 PM:

We're specing out new equipment for a sound system upgrade.
Our dealer is telling me he would like to use amplifiers from a company called Face Audio.

http://www.faceaudio.com/

We have one of these amplifiers in use elsewhere in the theater but it is not being used in the cinema system. It is nice, it looks good, it sounds decent and it seems to do the job. Our dealer tells me he can get a good price.

The thing is, I've never used Face Audio amplifiers before.

Has anybody else heard of them or used them?

What are your thoughts?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-08-2009, 01:22 PM:

It would be nice if they had a terminal strip for inputs
Also they seem a little on the deep side for some of the shallower racks

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-08-2009, 01:45 PM:

Stick with Ashly, Crown, and QSC. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2009, 02:40 PM:

I'll condense Louis' list down...stick with QSC or Lab-Gruppen. Crowns WILL fail on you and most are not great sounding. Ashley...blow way too many drivers...take it from a reconer.

Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2009, 03:46 PM:

I'll condense Steven's list down further to help you in your decision.

QSC

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-08-2009, 04:00 PM:

Crest are descent as well
What make and model of amps are in the permenant rig for live theatre use
It might be wise to go with the same make and model if the powerpoint is right to make them interchangable in the event of a failure during a show

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-08-2009, 05:50 PM:

The amps in place now are Crest. Very old Crest. More than 12 years old. They are dropping like flies. That's why we are replacing them.

When the house sound system gets replaced I am hoping to replace the cinema system too.

That's why our guy is suggesting the Face Audio amplifiers. He wants to put Face in the house system and wants to make the cinema amps all the same.

Like I said, we have a couple of them but they are not installed. We have them in road cases and we use them for run-outs or situations where we have to set up a sound system on short notice. They look and they seem to sound good. We have had them in use for a couple of years and we haven't had any problems. I just don't have the experience with them like I have QSC.

QSC is what I have been suggesting.

Unless I can come up with some concrete answers, it's probably going to be the Face Audio amps.

So I suppose nobody else has any direct experience either?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2009, 06:20 PM:

In terms of reliability, Lab-Gruppen probably has the best name in amps right now...I can't tell you how many folks that have told me nothing but great things about them...never a bad tale.

QSC is certainly a rock-solid cinema amp (DCA series) and is certainly our "standard" amp.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-08-2009, 08:09 PM:

The Lab-Gruppen look really nice!

But, if the prices I looked up on the internet are any indication of the street price, my boss will have a heart attack when he sees the bill! [Eek!]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-08-2009, 08:18 PM:

I fully agree: QSC's

..but...

This situation that Randy is facing is one area that I've faced before, and it really makes one want to walk away and let them fall on their face for not taking constructive suggestions on the best products for the buck.

We who are hired as in-house technicians/engineers to certain companies, face the one thing that can ire us to no end: Since we work with the stuff and have first knowledge, it seems that the people who we work for refuses to take our suggestions on the premise that these people don't like to be shown up as ignorant people, even though they know that we are right in our own mind since we have proven fact of the units/equipment that we (have) work(ed) with...and all we are doing is to get the best equipment in there for their buck on the sake of longetivity and quality since we care about our trade and field...and to the people we work for.

They simply want to do it their way - no questions asked.

Good luck, Randy .. hope things can work out in the best for you.

-Monte

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-08-2009, 09:21 PM:

Take them only if they are free. Louis

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-08-2009, 09:46 PM:

Agree. Obviously, there is a money factor in play here and unfortuate, we think expensive and high quality, and the owners are thinking pennies to the dollar that they want to spend and get away with just satisfactory results.

If that's the case, "RAT-Shack" would have been rolling in the dough of the cheap junk they sold that was labeled 'quality'.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-08-2009, 11:20 PM:

I will add that, all things considered, I think QSC is a very good choice.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-09-2009, 02:34 AM:

From The 'About us" page on theor web site...

quote:
With over 150 employees on staff in Asia

Tahst all the convincing I need not to ever use them. Of course thats why they're cheap... They're built with slave labor!

Mark

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-09-2009, 07:43 AM:

Aah! "Face"... An ancient Chinese word for "crap!" [Big Grin]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-09-2009, 08:25 AM:

Aren't some of the newer QSCs made in China as well?

And is twelve years really "old" for an amplifier? At what point do the capacitors start to fail?

The theatre where I worked when I was in college was using crappy McMartin paging amplifiers (really!) from about 1981 until the late 1990s when they started to fail and we replaced them with QSCs. I can only hope that a quality modern unit would outlast those pieces of junk.

Another theatre that I know was using an original Western Electric system from the 1930s until the 1980s, when it was replaced due to lack of spare parts availability.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-09-2009, 08:47 AM:

Scott...the ISA line, for cinema and the RMX line for pro are not made in USA and are price sensitive. QSC does not want to loose sales because some will by the lowest cost thing that they can find.

The DCAs made here.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-09-2009, 09:21 AM:

Its a little different when you have a company like QSC doing the Quality Control on the products. I've used a few of their Chineese made amps but only a few. They are basically the old USA series in a different box and all of you know how reliable they are. The build quality is almost as good as the US built stuff although IMHO the insides don't quite have the fit and finish that the US built amps have. You'll find the less expensive QSC amps at places like Guitar Center and a few unscruplous cinema dealers and the like.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-09-2009, 09:30 AM:

The RMX and ISA amps have higher distortion and more noise than their DCA/Powerlite/PLX counterparts too. The are value engineered and heavy.

Honestly...I had quite a few USA amps have problems and a few series 1s too. There was a reason that they went from a USA850 to a USA900 and likewise on the USA 1300 to the USA 1310.

About the only problem I've had with the DCA line was early on...the bad ribbon cables...to which QSC paid us to change them all out! I've always said that you can use a problem as an opportunity to make enimies or friends.

Steve

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-09-2009, 11:37 AM:

Off topic, but why in the world did QSC phase-reverse the inputs from the USA 1300 to the USA 1310? This has always bugged me.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-11-2009, 09:52 PM:

John,

I have a USA-1300 on the bench to rebuild tommrrow so I will compare the circuitry but it may have one less stage in the chain and that wold cause it to be phase reversed fomr the other amps. After I remove and clean the three inches of dust built up on these boards I'll look at it. We don't see many 1300's or 1700's fail ever! Interestingly, the boards in this model 1300 amp have a QSC Model 1700 label on them...

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-12-2009, 07:50 AM:

The USA and series 1 amps were virtually identical. The biggest distinction was the input module...the USA amps did not have the octal sockets and assoicated circuitry. However, the metal work was the same on the rear so pushing in on the label where the octals should be will reveal the holes.

All of QSC's series 1, 2, 3, MX and EX amps had the phase reversal (only on the TRS plugs). They had some goofy reason that escapes me at the moment. When QSC went to "combo" jacks (XLR and TRS in one jack)...that was the end of the phase reversal on the TRS.

QSC still puts a pad on the dataport jack on most of their amps (now some of the higher power amps no longer have it, but all of the cinema amps do). The reasoning behind that too is faulty.

Steve