Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DTS Europe - another nail in the coffin!

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Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 05-15-2009, 03:35 AM:

Received an email from DTS today informing me that they were no longer able to issue replacement soundtrack discs directly to any cinema!

This new policy effectively renders our DTS system redundant as we have, to date, received zero assistance from any distributor in attempting to obtain DTS discs.

Goodbye DTS it was nice knowing you. Looks like Dolby is about to get another customer!

Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 05-15-2009, 12:09 PM:

do you know a web site where i can take a look about?
im from Mexico and we have some DTS in the auditoriums, i wonder if its going to be around the world

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-15-2009, 12:41 PM:

in the US we never got the disks from DTS since day one of Jurassic park. The disks always ceom from the distributers.

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-15-2009, 01:06 PM:

That's that then.

Over here, for years if you didn't get discs with the print (which if it was second run or you're an independant was most prints) a wee phone call to DTS would often get a set of dics on it's way by Royal Snail.

Not anymore it would seem. [Frown]

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 05-15-2009, 01:12 PM:

That's some conern to us at the Cinema where I am at present as all screen's are DTS and no Dolby Dolby Digital.

Will have to check this one out, hope this does not effect any future 70mm DTS release Prints for Europe.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-15-2009, 02:45 PM:

Sure makes the case for that miracle; sound-on-film. Louis

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 05-15-2009, 03:50 PM:

DTS stands for Do They Ship? [Razz]

Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 05-15-2009, 03:58 PM:

The last time I contacted a distributor to request a DTS disc they insisted that I contact Dolby directly! Dolby? The lady then told me they never issued soundtrack discs for any prints.

I've lost track of the times distribution departments have told me that all the DTS discs have been 'lost' or 'already issued'. Sometimes I've been told that they were never released by DTS in the first place (even though the prints are officially listed as having UK DTS soundtracks)!

For over a year now I've resorted to seeking-out discs directly from DTS themselves, but this is no longer an option it appears!

It's all getting a big pain in the a**.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-15-2009, 04:15 PM:

I know that there are some beta testings being done for DTS content loaded directly on XD20 or XD10 units via internet but nothing is certain.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-15-2009, 04:41 PM:

Mark: "In the US we never got the disks from DTS since day one of Jurassic park. The disks always ceom from the distributers."

Yes, they're supposed to. But spend some time in the repertory world. When a print doesn't come with discs, its often the case that DFS and TES don't have any either (ostensibly), and then you end up calling the nice folks at DTS Postproduction, who verify your booking with the studio and then ship them out (on the theatre's fedex acct).

I suspect, Andy, that DTS US would do it for you. Though I'm not sure if you want to eat the shipping. From here to there FedEx International Priority is $54 (though for me it discounts to $30).

All-in-all, bummer! Did their letter explain why?

--jhawk

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 05-15-2009, 05:30 PM:

Hi all,

Just to clarify on what was obviously a poorly-worded email out of one of our offices:

Standard practice 'round the globe is for discs to ship with the film prints to cinemas. If a print that is meant to be carrying a DTS soundtrack is missing the disc, the first call should be to the film distribution company (ie DFS or Technicolor in the USA, Perivale or MPD in the UK). If the film depots are unresponsive then by all means contact DTS Europe or DTS in LA so that we can address these issues with the film distributors.

I take John's point that in the repertory world the prints are often missing discs (due to the previous recipient of the print not putting the disc back in the can), and the depots often don't carry inventory for back catalog titles. By all means for repertory titles please contact the appropriate DTS office.

However, for first run films we need to work through the film depots. The distributors of the films are meant to be paying for the soundtrack discs and their shipping costs, and DTS are supplying the discs to the appropriate film shippers (again, DFS and TCD in the US, Perivale and MPD in the UK). When there are disc distribution problems in these territories we need to make sure they are addressed at the shipper level.

I would like to reiterate that we want to help cinemas any way we can to make sure they are able to present their films with DTS Digital Sound.

Kind regards,

Daniel Schulz

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-15-2009, 08:23 PM:

I still think this is one more indication that the film companies only care about the release weekend and don't give two hoots about anyone else playing down the line. If they did, they would set up a huge surcharge for missing DTS disks. You can bet if a cinema forgets to include Reel 3 there would be at least a phone call. Why isn't it the same with DTS disks?

For what it's worth, these days when we get a used print it's about a 50 to 70% chance it will have usable DTS disks. The rest of the time they are either missing, or broken/scratched.

Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 05-15-2009, 11:56 PM:

And in the real world it just isn't practical or possible to get hold of missing discs in time for the screening!

We only screen films for three days at most. The print arrives Wednesday morning for screening Thursday to Saturday. In the case of a transit box arriving without discs there is little hope of getting anything sorted before the film hits the screen!

To date, we have relied heavily upon DTS sending us discs directly (often en masse at the start of each 6 week season). These were loaded onto our XD10 and then returned. In latter times DTS asked us to keep the discs and send them back with the prints themselves - thus increasing circulation.

There have been at least two occasions where this mode of operation has allowed us the screen a print with DTS when a pure reliance on the distributor would have failed to do so (distribution departments claiming that they had never been issued with discs in the first place).

Who, in reality, has the luxury of being able to spend two or three hours phoning, faxing and emailing all and sundry in a vain attempt to track down a set of missings discs?

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 05-16-2009, 12:29 AM:

Andy - given your ultra-short release windows it sounds like you almost fall into a repertory category - I will PM you to discuss.

For the benefit of all reading though, I'd just like to point out that we (DTS) cannot be made responsible for mailing discs upon demand directly to every cinema that requests them. The postage bill alone would sink us. This is why it is imperative that we work through the film shippers, who after all are already being paid by the studios to distribute prints and discs.

Thanks,

Dan

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-16-2009, 02:19 AM:

As with other parts of this business, the quality of "after the break" prints you get can be a matter of your relationship with the depot.

Once our local DFS outlet realized they could send our prints anywhere, they made a point not to send us prints from theatres that don't take care of them.

As a result, I receive very few prints that don't have the DTS disks in them. Technicolor has improved a lot in the past year or so, too.

On the few occasions that DTS hasn't been in the cans, I've been able to call another theatre in my market and dupe theirs.

Some of these options might not be available to a shift employee, but they seem to be areas where you can influence some inprovement.

Past that, I'd have to say that our DTS systems have been as good here as Dolby. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and there have been times when each has worked when the other hasn't for one reason or another.

In my market there's a 10-plex that was under construction when Regal bought Act III. All 10 projectors have SR-D. In addition, 5 have DTS, and the other 5 have SDDS, giving each screen 3 possible sources. Only one of these systems has literally never been used. Guess which!

Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 05-16-2009, 02:42 AM:

I have absolutely no complaints about DTS technically; it's a brilliant system which has never let us down. Factor-in the difficulties regarding disc circulation and the overall effectiveness of the system falls seriously into dispute.

I do agree that DTS can't (or should not need to)singly shoulder responsibility for disc distribution but when all the other links in the chain seem to be so weak (or broken) I wonder where we are supposed to turn? Someone, somewhere has to take responsibility, although I cannot see anyone rushing to do so!

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 05-16-2009, 02:50 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson was the last to post
in the US we never got the disks from DTS since day one of Jurassic park. The disks always ceom from the distributers

I've never used DTS, but it always seemed odd to me that they should supply discs. If you received a print with a reel missing you wouldn't get a replacement from Cinemeccanica or Kodak.

If you did get discs from them, what do you do with them afterwards, do you send them to the distributor with the print, or do you return them to DTS? Getting sound and picture from different places just seems really odd.

Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 05-16-2009, 03:00 AM:

Stephen, I could not agree more with what you say. Effectively though imagine being told by a distributor that they had run-out of all the second reels of, say, 'Spiderman 3' because the laboratories had failed to provide enough copies. You would either demand that the distributor sort it out or, failing that, try the laboratory direct and take the matter into your own hands. This is what we are being forced to do.

The question of where the original fault lies is another matter.

The fact remains that there IS a problem. Despite phoning, faxing, writing and emailing in advance, we are not getting any DTS discs directly from any distributor.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-16-2009, 05:00 AM:

Once again, this issue would (mostly) be solved if the ISO files could be made available for download....

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-16-2009, 06:30 AM:

These are the same problems we had with Vitaphone! Louis

Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 05-16-2009, 07:36 AM:

Yep, we all know the answer to this problem but we also know that nothing is going to change. This debate is all too familar (we have all engaged in it numerous times before)and it will continue to happen until the very last 35mm print and associated set of DTS discs go into landfill!

Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 05-16-2009, 09:08 AM:

On a couple of UK Sony/Columbia prints now, we have had a note with the print saying If we want discs we need to ring them. So it seems that discs are available, but wont send out until asked. Does it really cost that much more to drop a couple of discs in the box with the film? [Confused]

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-16-2009, 10:19 AM:

And don't forget that the discs can easily be coppied on a PC for multiple theater locations. How easy can that get!

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 05-16-2009, 12:34 PM:

Tim - Columbia are maintaining a list of DTS-equipped theatres in the UK, so once you are on their list you should always receive a disc in the film can on their titles (in other words, you should not need to request a disc for each release).