Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Why is DTS silent on trailer.

This is topic Why is DTS silent on trailer. in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009899

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-19-2009, 03:38 PM:

Currently we show "Angles & Demons" with attached trailer "Terminator".

The processor switched to DTS when the trailer starts, but the only silence in the speakers. After manually switch to dolby the DTS switch on when "Angles" begin with normal sound.

Why ?

Posted by Paavo Mardi (Member # 4962) on 05-19-2009, 03:49 PM:

Probably you have DTS disc only for "Angels and Demons" and not for trailer?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-19-2009, 04:01 PM:

Sounds like you're only showing one trailer-being the attached: Thus, the DTS unit receives the timecode from the trailer and switches it to DTS before your automation pulses up the dowser. When this happens, the automation defaults the processor to optical and will remain there, or can even freeze up the processor.

Either add a trailer that isn't on any discs to the front so the processor will see it as optical, add a good length of black leader at the front so the douser will open before reader sees timecode, or shorten up your douser opening time.

-Monte

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-19-2009, 04:08 PM:

We playing 3 trailers.
"Flickan som lekte med elden" (Swedish), "2012" and "Terminator"

the 2 first plays in Dolby Digital, "Terminator" switches to DTS with silence, The feature is in DTS with sound.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-19-2009, 04:14 PM:

Well, In the original "Buzz And Bill" DTS Demo film they did want you to listen to the silence... So perhaps they've carried that to new heights...

Really... When the trailer with no sound plays do you have...

A digital Light illuminated on your player?

Time code light lit?

Are you 100% sure you have the correct disks?

The player SHOULD revert the Dolby to analog for this trailer but it is not for some reason.

Is the DTS processor functioning normally for reversion?

Is the analog processor ok?

Is the cabling between the DTS and the Dolby ok?

Perhaps its one of the above causing the problem.... hope this helps...

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-19-2009, 04:18 PM:

What happens when you remove the Terminator trailer, then no sound problems?

sounds like the trailer didn't get processed correctly.

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-19-2009, 04:20 PM:

>Do you have a digital Light on your player?
I dont understand "digital Light", but the players LED are the same as when the DTS works. 3 stady, 1 flashes.

> Is the time code light lit?
Yes.

>Are you 100% sure you have the correct disks?
Yes
But, no trailers on the disk,

>What player do you have? 6, 6D or XD-10?
6.

>Is the analog processor ok?
Yes (Dolby CP650)

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-19-2009, 04:52 PM:

Mark, just curious. Can the DTS timecode match up with reel 1, or a trailer file on the disk, but not advance the audio? Maybe it's a firmware thing on an older 6, but I've never seen a situation where the box would go digital and then just sit there. What could it be playing? A silent file, maybe? Seems wierd that it could do that, then be fine with the feature audio.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 05-19-2009, 05:06 PM:

When the "attached" trailer was put on the head of the feature, was part of the leader for the feature put ahead of the trailer? If so, then there might be the DTS "run-up" for the feature right before the trailer. This could confuse the DTS player. Look at the DTS code right before the Terminator trailer. If you see two DTS run-ups, cut the first one off.

I have also seen the trailer film not match the trailer on the DTS discs, however, the DTS player should figure this out, and play analog.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-19-2009, 05:12 PM:

That's true, Bruce. However, if I were to do that, my 6Ds would switch to digital, then revert as soon as they saw a timecode for something that wasn't on the disk. It would be a common function during the play of most of our trailer packs, assuming we don't all play only trailers for which we have digital audio. The 6 was supposed to revert as well, but I don't recall if it had to have a specific adapter in the control cable for that purpose.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-19-2009, 06:41 PM:

If you switch off your DTS reader during a movie, does it automatically revert to analogue sound?

If not, there's your problem. As you've said, the disc doesn't contain the Terminator trailer yet has DTS code on it. The DTS unit sees it when the trailer hits so away it goes but there's nothing there on the disc. Unable to revert to analogue it appears to stay running until it gets to the feature.

Pull the cable on the reader while a feature is running and test that.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-19-2009, 10:01 PM:

It sounds to me like the discs do not have the Terminator audio on it, but they DO have the 2012 audio, such that the dts kicks in AND the SRD kicks in, but for some reason the SRD drops out when the Terminator trailer starts (perhaps a bad printing job) defaulting to dts which was already running before, but now has no audio to play. Hard to explain.

Flip the order of the last 2 trailers and report back.

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-20-2009, 06:46 AM:

OK, Heres is some more details

The 2012 (1:1.85) Plays in Dolby Digital.
Then:
- The original leader (wile automation change format)
- Terminator (Scope)
- Feature: Deamons & Angles. (Scope)

All from lab, no splices between Leader, Trailer, Feature.
----
If i disconnect the DTS-reader - the sound reverts to Dolby Digital.

If I cut the Power (220V) to the DTS unit - the sound does not revert - silence.
-----
I dont know if the DTS disk have any sound for the trailer, I take a look later today.
Buy I have newer seen any DTS-disk with Trailers-sound before.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-20-2009, 08:07 AM:

Although its been more than two years I had been in a projection booth as a projectionist, I do recall that some trailers were included in feature DTS discs.
Demetris

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-20-2009, 12:01 PM:

quote: Bruce Hansen
If so, then there might be the DTS "run-up" for the feature right before the trailer. This could confuse the DTS player.

To me this, combined with the nature of the way your
automation interface is wired, makes the most sense
since I've had a similar problem like this last year,
and everything else seems to be working right for you.

I had a feature where the attached trailer was hot-
spliced on and there was apparantly a bit of the
"reel one" timecode in the black right before the
trailer. It would confuse the DTS 6D, sometimes
causing it to go into a temporary lock-up condition.
Removing about 6inches of film right before the trailer
splice cured the problem. JUST FYI> Prior to making this
fix, the film ran fine when sound was played back from an
DTS XD-10, but the "10" is a much more sophisticated unit
and probably better able to deal with things like this.

Just to confirm, here in the USA, the Angels & Demons
feature disks don't have the Terminator audio on them.
Only "Julie & Julia", "Pelham 123" & "Ugly Truth trailers

Actual(WoW!) DTS Disk Directory (Edited:Trailers Only)

quote: Paer Hoegberg
"Flickan som lekte med elden"

My friend, whose mother is Swedish, speaks a little bit
of the language and tells me that this is something like
"Girl Playing With Fire" or "Firey Girl" or "Girl on FIre"
. . whatever it is, it sounds hot! [Big Grin]

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-20-2009, 04:05 PM:

quote: Paer Hoegberg
If i disconnect the DTS-reader - the sound reverts to Dolby Digital.

Good.

quote:
- The original leader (wile automation change format)

Try another leader.

quote: Paer Hoegberg
If I cut the Power (220V) to the DTS unit - the sound does not revert - silence.

You'd be silent too if you had your power cut. [eyes]

Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-20-2009, 05:01 PM:

quote: John Wilson
You'd be silent too if you had your power cut.

Strange then, becuase at every cinema that I've worked at, if you turned off the DTS player the sound processor would use some other format instead (and not do nothing, using silence).

Though, if you don't have the correct automation controls connected, it would drop to no sound.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-22-2009, 12:22 AM:

quote:
- The original leader (wile automation change format)

I agree with whoever said change the leader..the problem here is a simple one: your format change or other cue with the automation is happening at the same time the DTS is trying to revert the sound, so it is a collision of cues.

Note in the DTS manuals they warn against placing cues too close to the start/end of trailers or at end of features to prevent the automation from missing or overriding the cues from the DTS...

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-22-2009, 01:06 AM:

quote: Paer Hoegberg
If I cut the Power (220V) to the DTS unit - the sound does not revert - silence.

quote: Chris Slycord
if you turned off the DTS player the sound processor would use some other format

I have several systems using DTS 6D's and XD-10's that
are connected to either Dolby or Ultra-Stereo processors
depending on what auditorium they're in.

The DTS players will "pulse" the processor into the
DTS mode mode whenever they acquire time-code and
have the proper digital files either on disk or
loaded on the hard drive to match.
If time code is lost or the correct digital files
are not available, then the DTS will pulse the
Dolby or UltraStereo processor to the fallback
audio mode, which in my case is Dolby SR.

But if I were to simply cut power to the DTS player,
the processor would stay in the DTS mode since it
(the processor) would not get any pulse from the DTS
player to kick it into your fallback format once the
DTS player looses power. No power, no pulse.

Ergo, no sound in auditorium, unless you manually
put the processor into some mode other than the
DTS input.

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-25-2009, 09:39 AM:

It's soon solved - the print are moved to a smaller screen (without DTS).

----
The international title of 'Flickan som lekte med elden' are (from IMDB) 'The Girl Who Played with Fire'

Its the 2nd of a series of 3 movies startinig with
'Män som hatar kvinnor' ('The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo')
and the last is
'Luftslottet som sprängdes' ('The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest')

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-25-2009, 05:03 PM:

quote: Paer Hoegberg
It's soon solved - the print are moved to a smaller screen (without DTS).

Sadly, not solved...just removed from the equation.