Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 16mm: Singer Instaload or Elmo 16-CL?

This is topic 16mm: Singer Instaload or Elmo 16-CL? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009914

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-27-2009, 04:32 PM:

I've got some 16mm film to transfer to video.

I have a pair of Elmo 16-CL at work but they have the standard shutters.
I think I can get a pair of 5-blade shutters for about $25.00 apiece. The down side is that I would have to un-modify them when I am done.

(Would it be okay to keep the 5-blade shutters in them for regular use?)

On eBay, I see a couple of ads for a Singer Instaload that has already been converted. The price is $189.00 (Buy Now. No bids.)

Which is better?

Modifying the Elmos is the cheapest way to go but I will always have a projector of I get the Singer. I could possibly make my money back with it, too. (Just supposing. Not a real business plan.)

Is one of the two of these projectors easier on film?

OR... Is there an alternative that I have overlooked.

I don't have $500 to spend on a projector. I'd like to spend no more than $200.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-27-2009, 04:55 PM:

I've never used the Elmo model you mention. I do
have one of the Singers, but it's not the instaload.

From what you've written it seems like using the Elmo
would be a bit of a pain, since you'd have to modify
and then un-modify it. That seems like a lot of extra
labor to me.

The Singer would work "right out of the box" so to
speak. The one I have works well, and is easy on film.
Personally I've always prefered manual threading over
slot-load machines because I can see the entire film
path. But that's a personal preference and I'm not
saying that slotloads are inherently bad.

One of the things I like about the Singer is that
it has a built in "line level" output, which is
independant of the speaker volume control. I don't
know enough about that Elmo to know if it also has one.

You can do standard projection with the 5 blade
shutter in place. You just loose a bit of light.
You might not even notice it on a small sized
screen, but you probably would if you were
trying to project a big picture.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-27-2009, 05:18 PM:

I have a 14 foot Da-Lite roll up screen hanging in my garage. I use a video projector to show movies on it in the summer time. It's beaded so I don't think light will be a problem.

The Elmo sometimes busts a few sprocket holes if the film is brittle.
(A) I don't think it can be avoided if you have a claw type movement. Right?
(B) A good treatment of Film-Guard should help with this problem. Less friction. Right?

Given that 16mm film is often irreplaceable, I'd like a projector that doesn't beat film too bad.
I fear that is a situation that can only be rectified by buying a better, more expensive projector.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 05-27-2009, 05:36 PM:

The Elmo is a much more popular and well-thought-of machine, but the big selling point for the Singers/Graflex/Telex machines is their adjustable pressure plate which can go from nearly no pressure to high pressure for warped prints. FWIW, the military (primarily the Navy) went to Singer/Telex machines for telecine use. If you do successfully modify a 16CL they routinely sell on fleabay for $300+. There's a man in NJ who was formerly the manager of the Singer/Telex factory service depot who still deals in parts and provides service for these machines--Charles Hessinger of Bogota, NJ. Good luck.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-28-2009, 09:31 AM:

If you use the Elmo, make sure that the rubber rollers are in good condition. They can turn to goo over time. The old ones can be rebuilt or you can order new ones from an Elmo deale if yours are bad.

Both machines are gentle on film, but the Elmo is generally better with damaged/warped prints and also has better sound quality.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-28-2009, 09:37 AM:

quote: Jeff Taylor
the military (primarily the Navy) went to Singer/Telex machines for telecine use.

The Singer machine I bought was a NIB military surplus machine.
It came packed in a heavy weather & rodent-proofed cardboard
box completely sealed in a double-weight waxed paper type
of material. It was, in practial sense, "new", even though
it had probably sat on a shelf in a government warehouse
for many years. I've never had any problems with it.