This is topic Simplex SH1000 needs new gasket....tips? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-04-2009, 09:28 PM:
 
I've got a Simplex SH1000 that is emptying the gear oil about once every 3 shows thru the gasket seal on the gear side. Today I saw what seems like the gasket material itself has melted into a big drop of dark brown brittle stuff directly below the gear housing.

I want to disassemble the whole thing and put in a new seal, but I only watched my mentor open up one of these, but it was like 25 years ago, so I can't remember squat.

Is there anything special I should know about? I don't want to unscrew the housing plate only to have a bunch of springs and parts fly out all over the room.

Any helpful tips and what to avoid would be appreciated.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-04-2009, 09:38 PM:
 
Head to an auto parts house (like NAPA) and buy you a roll of gasket material.

Then, take the door, lay it on the gasket material, press down on the gasket material with the door and that should leave some sort of indentation on the material since you're gonna have to cut out within the gasket material with an "X-acto" knife, and with a fine tip "Sharpie" marker, trace out the frame of the door to cut with either the "X-acto" or the scissors..

good luck on this one. - Monte
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-04-2009, 10:35 PM:
 
No springs should fly out or anything.. Remove the pulleys and all those little parts from the two shafts and carefully take the cover off. This is what it looks like with the cover removed. That spiral gear turns two regular brass gears in opposite directions; (the brass gears were already removed when I took this picture) Usually the upper one wears faster because it also drives the whole projector head. You can get gears and gaskets from Wolk.


 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-04-2009, 11:50 PM:
 
True, and please remember which brass gear goes where, for one of them is off-set to center and if that one goes on the other shaft, you'll wear out the teeth off that brass gear in a quick.

I learned that one the hard way moons ago .....

-Monte
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-05-2009, 12:10 PM:
 
Monte; they are the same in Simplex, different on RCA. Otherwise identical.

We do not use any seals on the ball bearings. I know it seems counterintuitive, but oil usage is less. Louis
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-05-2009, 01:29 PM:
 
No seals on ours, fill it till it reaches the point where it starts to come out of the bearings. When running the level settles at the point where it is maintainable.
 

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Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-05-2009, 03:38 PM:
 
For the SH-1000 Remove the whole gearbox from the soundhead. Just 4 screws and loosen the allen screw on the flexible coupler and pull out the gear side. Nothing will shoot out at you. Have the manual handy. Have you just tried tightening all the gearbox screws?

No seals of any kind just gaskets. Wolk or LaVezzi both have them as well as the gears. Bearing retainer gaskets are very thin. Should be 6 of them and a gearbox cover gasket if you are pulling it down all the way. You may need an CCS oil slinger as they seem to wear. Bearings need to be open at least on the inside to oil properly.

Will be glad to answer any questions you might have.

Dick
 

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-05-2009, 09:33 PM:
 
I've had good results with double sealed bearings (2RS). A few have run heavy schedules for 5 years now with no leakage and no appreciable oil loss... and no problems. One issue is that with sealed bearings the case is effectively hermetically sealed: it's not easy to get oil in (or out) and oil can dribble out the filler with temperature changes. I just drill a tiny (#60 drill or so) hole in the very top of the gearcase to let air out (and in).
The extra friction load of the sealed bearings (6 of them) hasn't been a problem.
On one I used 1RS bearings and have also had no trouble. Same need for a breather hole.
With the original 1Z single shielded bearings the gearbox should outlive most of us, but you'll have oil stains down the sides after a while at the least. Tipping the soundhead over will dump the oil pretty darn quickly: with sealed bearings the cases stay dry and even tipped on the side you only get a few drops lost.
Running without oil will destroy the gears (available from Wolk at last check but $$$) quickly.
Wolk should have the gaskets. They also should have the sprocket side round covers, these tend to break at the trap roller stop.
The trickiest job is aligning the motor and gearbox. The soundhead runs amazingly smoothly when these are correctly aligned but has a vibration and odd noise when they are misaligned. For some unknown reason many I've seen are not alignable as-is, the holes for the motor plate mounting bolts have to be drilled out to allow the motor to get high enough to line up.
Change the motor bearings to 2RS while you're at it, removing the grease cups and plugging their holes with 1/8NPT plugs.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-06-2009, 03:24 AM:
 
The thing that causes the bronze gears to wear out very quickly after a rebuild is a very worn pinion!!!

I would tighten up the rear screws first... that should at least slow the leak down. Also check the oil sight glass very, very carfully. ALL of the original sight glasses eventually leak too. You my want to replace the sight glass at the same time as the gasket. The rubber sealed bearings are also a good idea but I prefer rubber seal only on the outside. Let the oil lubricate the bearing as it was intended to do.

Mark
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-07-2009, 10:33 AM:
 
As always, thanks for the help, guys (and the pictures John). I am not as trepedatious about it now.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-07-2009, 11:12 AM:
 
Mark is correct about the pinion...too many people think the steel gears don't wear like the softer metals or fiber...while it is true they don't wear as much, any wear they do get, they immediately impart onto their weaker mating gears!

The other big thing I see with gear box failures is too light a weight of oil. 30-weight is too thin. 40 weight should be a minimum. Ever looked at the oil flow inside a gearbox soundhead? If it is too thin, it does not coat the upper gear.

As for the gaskets...use the paper gaskets available from the sources listed. You can improve them with a gasket sealant such as Permatex® Aviation Form-A-Gasket® No. 3 Sealant. Its a black tacky substance that will ensure even a paper gasket will seal up a machined surface...however it isn't as thick other gasket solutions that will through off your clearances.

Steve
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-07-2009, 12:40 PM:
 
Those of you who are lucky enough to get to visit Mike Blaksleys auto parts store will get to play with the lubricant thingy on the counter... made up of several gears in a see through plastic housing... you turn the crank and watch the lube stick to the gear teeth.... this stuff what ever it is would make a great SH-1000 lube. Perhaps Mike can chime in on this.
 

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Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 06-07-2009, 03:17 PM:
 
Mark.

I'm guessing that counter display is from Lucas Oil Products. We have them here in Australia and are always fun to play with.

Here is a good page displaying these oil characteristics.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

Cheers
Ian
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-07-2009, 03:23 PM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Perhaps Mike can chime in on this.

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...and post a video of it in action.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-07-2009, 05:58 PM:
 
Get an RCA gearbox...that will let you remove the "corner" of the box and you can see the lube on the gear real easy.

Steve
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-07-2009, 06:24 PM:
 
Yes, I think it is a Lucas lubricant display... what ever the stuff is it sure works good.

Mark
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-07-2009, 10:01 PM:
 
...maybe in low rpm status, but not in car motors where the Lucas causes the oil to foam up horribly in the crankcase..

..don't put Lucas in that H3 of yours..
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-08-2009, 05:11 AM:
 
Will keep all of the advice posted here as future reference, but actually (and I feel really embarrassed about this), but as per Dick's question,

quote: Dick Prather

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Have you just tried tightening all the gearbox screws?

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quote: Dave Macaulay

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Change the motor bearings to 2RS while you're at it, removing the grease cups and plugging their holes with 1/8NPT plugs.

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I am rebuilding an SH1000 and was wondering if changing the motor bearings as stated above is a common practice?
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 06-29-2010, 04:59 PM:
 
Usually only if the motor needs it. I would disconnect the motor and let it run without load. If it runs smoothly and quietly, then I left well enough alone. Also, unlike the RCA's the Simplex flywheel was press fit or something. I found it really difficult to get the flywheel off.

JJ
 

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Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 07-07-2010, 05:13 PM:
 
I'm trying to figure out how to take this apart:


 

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Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 07-07-2010, 05:49 PM:
 
That is a rotary stabilizer flywheel that goes on the sound drum shaft. It's filled with oil. Why do you want to take it apart? Do you suspect the oil's leaked out?
 

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Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 07-08-2010, 02:48 PM:
 
This unit has been reported as "bad" by a third party projection tech. I wanted to disassemble it to see if I could rebuild or repair it.
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 07-08-2010, 03:05 PM:
 
hehe is he union?
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-09-2010, 05:30 PM:
 
Richard: Good one.

Eric: Those stabilizers don't go bad..unless the oil has leaked out. And you would know that easily by both lack of weight and the "feel" as you rotate it.

They cannot be readily disassembled, unless you feel like drilling out all those rivets around the edge. (And IIRC the metal is rolled over on the edge so you still won't get it apart.)

Short answer is it's not worth trying to "fix" it.

The only thing I've seen break on them is the machined "clamps" that secure it to the shaft. I'm still trying to figure out a solution for that problem.

I may have another one floating around here if you need one.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-10-2010, 09:15 AM:
 
We have had good luck using the current 5-star flywheel on there, if it is really a problem.

I concur. Weigh it and if it is the same as another, leave it alone. The oil can be sluggish when cold so warm booths are desireable. Louis
 

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Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 07-13-2010, 06:26 PM:
 
Here are some pics of the gears in the sound head:





Looks like I'll need a new set.
 

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