Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Screwed Public Enemy print

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Posted by Peter Schoell (Member # 919) on 07-01-2009, 08:35 PM:

I've seen a lot of mis-deeds involving film, but this is a new one.
One of our prints of PE came sealed from TES with over 500 little screws loose in the can. Needless to say PE won't play tonight.

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 07-01-2009, 09:28 PM:

This makes absolutely no sense. Who would do such a thing? Why?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-01-2009, 10:17 PM:

quote: Peter Schoell
Needless to say PE won't play tonight

I don't understand why 500 screws in a can would make a film unplayable.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-01-2009, 10:17 PM:

Why would this prevent you from using the print?

Ha! Great minds!

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 07-01-2009, 10:21 PM:

My guess would be that the print is screwed....

HAPPY CANADA DAY! btw.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 07-02-2009, 12:39 AM:

The screws are likely tightly wedged in some areas. Some of the screws may get damaged when removing the reels.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-02-2009, 12:43 AM:

[Roll Eyes]

(Uhhh...tip the can upside down to get the screws out while holding the reels up in the can......)

That's real sad - letting something like that stop one from using the print .....

-Monte

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 07-02-2009, 02:37 AM:

With as much shifting those reels do while in transit, the screws could have very well poked holes in the film making it unplayable to some extent. Other than that, I don't see why it couldn't be played.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 07-02-2009, 02:50 AM:

Is this some kind of a joke?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-02-2009, 03:32 AM:

(Kinda funny that Peter hasn't responded back to our comments yet...and this was posted in the evening when he should be on screen with this movie...)

Wonder if he's "baiting" us with an idiotic story just to prove a point of sorts that we really don't know what, or why waste our times in the first place.

I've seen this in other forums before: one person comes on with a topic, others chime in to make a tonnage of comments and arguements that pertain to the original topic, or drift off on side topics. Meanwhile, the original OP never pops back on for any sort of comment or rebuttal.

..leaves all who has posted high and dry to look like fools ...

-Monte

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 07-02-2009, 05:50 AM:

quote: James Westbrook
Is this some kind of a joke?

I would hope so! Its pretty funny even if it isn't a joke.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-02-2009, 06:12 AM:

Assuming the print doesn't have a mag track (be sure to check first!) [Razz]

A suitable electromagnet or tape cart eraser should pull out the offending metal.

... that print's screwed up!
..... something's screwy here.
....... what screwball would do such a thing?

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 07-02-2009, 08:10 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
(Kinda funny that Peter hasn't responded back to our comments yet...and this was posted in the evening when he should be on screen with this movie...)

Peter Does have several theatres that are not very close together So He could be traveling between them.

I can see how the screws could do damage to the edge of the print and make certain reels unplayable.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-02-2009, 08:15 AM:

You paid your TES bill... right...

Posted by Peter Schoell (Member # 919) on 07-02-2009, 12:01 PM:

In response to Monte. Not all of us have time to spend online. If i could ever work just a 40 hour week, I'd be on FN vacation!
I only posted this photo to see if anyone else got the same treatment.
I've had intentional sabotage before, but only when the print has come from another theatre.
Some of you are correct, the screws did puncture the film, also my manager.
The screws were of a specialized nature, and TES says they don't have screws like that in their facility. They have no idea how the screws got in the can. Universal Is quite concerned
Now here's some baiting for ya. My first theory is the screws were place by the film handle's equivalent of a cyber hacker, somebody with way too much time on their hands. Or somebody who sells padlocks for film cans. Look at the huge industry that grew from the Tylenol tampering incident.
So Monte, I'm sure you will have plenty of responses, don' feel offended if I don't reply for a while, 6 months maybe.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-02-2009, 12:22 PM:

That's alright - no harm done-my apologies in my comments ... It just looked horribly odd to see such items in film shipments where it's not a common thing for someone to pull a prank like that...

Was their white zip ties sealing the cans down, my next question?

That would have raised a red flag when the print arrived at the location - of an unsealed delivery (or, was the film on a circuit - like a public sneak of sorts and you got that print from that one theatre..?)

Good luck as always

-Monte

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 07-02-2009, 12:35 PM:

Maybe someone was trying to show that zip ties (especially generic off the shelf types) don't exactly "secure" or "tamper-proof" the cans and that anyone can place any object in the can(s) at any point during transit. If that is the case, I hate to think of what else could have been put in there.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 07-02-2009, 02:20 PM:

I have received one can of two into which someone had forced GRAPHITE powder. The reels, can and film were encrusted with the stuff. This was a Technicolor shipment we had to run. It was very hard to clean that mess and some of the powder was on the image areas of the film as well.

KEN

Posted by Jonathan Bodge (Member # 4072) on 07-02-2009, 03:38 PM:

Union troubles?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-02-2009, 05:56 PM:

I still don't see how this makes the print unplayable. Even if there was some damage to the edges it couldn't be that bad as to not make it to the screen.

If you're afraid of a screw flying out when you're winding it...just wind it slowly.

It's a stupid thing to be there in the first place, I agree...but the show must go on.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-02-2009, 06:53 PM:

I agree with John. Unless the screws were literally screwed into the print edges -- damaging multiple sprocket holes. From the photo it just looks like somebody dumped a box o'screws in there. Peter when you get a minute, how about a pic of some of the film damage?

Posted by James Falloon (Member # 1933) on 07-03-2009, 05:25 AM:

Agreed with above. Don't just write off a print without inspecting it first. It looks as though it's a nice tight wind with the head/tail taped down and I would suspect that very little, if any, actual damage has been done and I doubt that it would show up on screen.

As for how the screws got there, maybe someone is trying to send you a hint that you need to fix your seats [Big Grin]

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-03-2009, 09:08 AM:

quote: Kenneth Wuepper
I have received one can of two into which someone had forced GRAPHITE powder.

Same exact thing here not too long ago. Just one can of two. Strange to say the least.

Posted by Andrew Bangs (Member # 4938) on 07-03-2009, 10:28 AM:

It could be that the print is fine however why take a chance when the studio needs to replace it any ways. We had a bad reel where the sound and picture faded out in a couple places. We discovered this while putting the movie together and thought it might just be part of the film but after our test screening we found it was a bad print. we sent it back got a new reel and a month later we got a bill from the studio saying it was scratched and damaged by us so we had to pay for the reel. Now I do know that when we play a movie for a full run it does get a few minor scratches from the booth monkeys but this thing only ran through our projectors once and through the make up table twice (once on and once off). The initial damage was clearly from the developer. but still they wanted us to pay the 225 for lab fees and reel replacement. So I say if I reel ever comes in looking damaged don't even give them the chance of saying it was your fault just pack it up and send it back. Even if their is a chance it could be Ok. We would rather take the chance to loose just the ticket cost instead of both the ticket cost (due to refunds) and the replacement fees.

It's just not kosher!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-05-2009, 05:35 PM:

quote: Andrew Bangs
It could be that the print is fine however why take a chance when the studio needs to replace it any ways

Why on earth do they need to replace it? It's only got some screws thrown in the trunk for goodness sake. It's not like there's an emptying can of oil or something.

Sure, make your feelings known to the distributor that you're not happy about getting a print this way, but seriously...this print can't make it to the screen and needs another print?

Come on. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-06-2009, 01:29 PM:

TES says they have no such screws in their facility. So this means that somewhere between the TES depot and the theatre, that print was opened. Which means it has been compromised. Perhaps pirated. The screws are thrown in by the bootlegger -- his signature if you will -- basically thumbing his nose at the FBI, and the MPAA, and telling Universal they've been screwed.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 07-06-2009, 05:01 PM:

quote: Kenneth Wuepper
I have received one can of two into which someone had forced GRAPHITE powder. The reels, can and film were encrusted with the stuff. This was a Technicolor shipment we had to run. It was very hard to clean that mess and some of the powder was on the image areas of the film as well.

maybe you should have left it there! [Smile]

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 07-06-2009, 09:33 PM:

Carl,

We used to keep a block of Paraffin (Canning Wax) in the booth for when we got a "green" print from the exchange. It stops the jitter in the gate from the tacky emulsion on the old acetate based prints. Just touch it to the film above the gate on both edges and the jitter went away for a while. After two showings the prints settled down and no more waxing was necessary.

KEN

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-07-2009, 12:43 AM:

..but it was a mess when some prints came in that had too much paraffin on the edges ... gums up rails and goos up inbetween the intermittent sprocket teeth.

This happened to me two months ago with "Gran Torino" - one of our cinemas complained of "picture hopping". Got there and I can hear that oscillating chatter in the sprocket area and the picture was weaving left to right.

I grabbed a toothbrush, soaked it down with FG and scrubbed that sprocket while it was running.

Immediately, it quieted down and picture got steady.

During the intermission, I took the trap and gate assembly out and dug out so much wax, it was insane.

Then, told my superiors of this, for they tought it was a bad print. They never heard of prints being waxed and I had to educate them.

lots fun ... - Monte

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 07-07-2009, 06:28 AM:

Yes, Monte,

As with everything else, there are those who figure if a little is good more is better.

One of our theaters had a new print of "The Blob" that actually would stick in the gate and burn the frames after tearing out the sprocket holes. Only solution was to wax the edges. Problem solved. Back then it was common for our operators to clean the projector between each 2,000 ft reel. It gave them something productive to do with that 20 minute break.

KEN

Posted by Peter Schoell (Member # 919) on 07-09-2009, 09:37 PM:

Here are some more detailed photos

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-09-2009, 10:01 PM:

No shots of the damaged-and-not-able-to-be-screened print?

Hmmm... [eyes]

Good looking screws though. [Wink]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-09-2009, 10:21 PM:

Those are some fairly distinctive screws. Some kind of keyway screw or something? No?

You'd think it would be easy to track down the source of such an odd screw.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 07-09-2009, 11:00 PM:

quote: Peter Schoell
Some of you are correct, the screws did puncture the film, also my manager.

quote: John Wilson
I still don't see how this makes the print unplayable. Even if there was some damage to the edges it couldn't be that bad as to not make it to the screen.

It may not have exactly been "unplayable" with holes in the film, but it would have looked bad on on screen and looked even worse if they had cut out the damaged parts. I personally wouldn't have run it either in this condition.

Posted by Jake Spell (Member # 5294) on 07-09-2009, 11:04 PM:

those screws look like the ones used in assembling funiture(particle board desks) and how does anyone know that TES didn't lie about the screws. They just don't want to admit it.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-10-2009, 11:04 AM:

quote: Jake Spell
how does anyone know that TES didn't lie about the screws. They just don't want to admit it.

And how does anyone know they're lying? You can't just say a straight up "They don't want to admit it" while at the same time saying "I'm not sure if they're lying."

Posted by Jake Spell (Member # 5294) on 07-10-2009, 07:44 PM:

There should had been a maybe nefor that. I type fater than I think sometimes. [Smile]