Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Displaying a green band?

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Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-03-2009, 04:42 PM:

I was at a local cinema the other day and noticed that they did not have a single green band(or another other type of mpaa screen for that matter) before any of their trailers. I have been building prints for my theater for almost a year now and have always been told to include the green bands in my trailer packs. Is it against any type of rules set by the mpaa to not display these bands? The trailer changes seemed so much better without the green bands.

Posted by Matt Young (Member # 5327) on 07-03-2009, 05:01 PM:

on some movies I'll cut the green band out when I'm building the print, it makes for a smoother change between previews. neither of our transformers prints have green screen

Be careful though, some trailers have sound that actually starts in the green screen for a split second.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-03-2009, 05:31 PM:

We've talked about this before, but I think the thread's several years old.

I trim my bands to maybe 1, 1.5 seconds. I also trim the ends about half a second after the visual fades or cuts out. It keeps things moving along, afaic.

Others here feel strongly about splicing in the black, which means you have extra "dead air" and a long band... but that's how they like it.

To each his own, I guess.

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-03-2009, 06:07 PM:

I've always cut my trailers in the black when I am not pressured to get the print plattered and screened(especially when we receive the print literally an hour before its screening. It was actually the first time I've seen a movie without green bands--the lack of them created a much more enjoyable beginning of the film. However I am sure the emotional 'My Sister's Keeper' was reason the trailers were so exciting.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2009, 06:26 PM:

Doing that makes the presentation too much like watching TV. [thumbsdown]

Plus when some hag comes out of the auditorium screaming because you ran a preview that had something that she (and nobody else in the world) found offensive (because she is a gypsy and wants free passes), you can remind her that she saw the MPPA's green band rating tag herself and shove the green band wording in her face "the following preview has been approved for ALL audiences"...meaning the trailer itself is rated G. Sorry lady, have a nice day, go suck it. [thumbsup]

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-03-2009, 06:55 PM:

Fortunately I have never been called to the lobby to explain that situation to a customer. We do however have ad tapes that are played before the start of each film--the end always having a piece about no talking(the Reno 911 one is the most recent and most offensive). Unfortunately, on several occasions, we have had some of our projectionists play that ad tape instead of the all age appropriate ad tape in children films. The flocking of soccer mom's to the lobby is always a scary one.

I should note that every projectionist who has done that is no longer with us, thankfully.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 07-03-2009, 11:16 PM:

I bet the cinema in question (cutting green bands off) is a Cinemark.

Cinemark's reasoning probably goes something like this:

Average 15 screens per location x 5 shows per screen per day x 5 trailers per show x 5 seconds per green band = 1875 seconds per day of "unnecessary" projecting, roughly 30 minutes. Chop off the green bands and we save on operating costs!

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 07-03-2009, 11:19 PM:

Being in Ontario where the MPAA doesn't really mean anything you rarely see them on previews, I hack the wee buggers off when they do show up. People like to argue if they see them. Movie posters are worse. I can't remember the film, but I had someone arguing because a poster said restricted as per the MPAA, in Ontario it was rated PG or 14A or something like that. (They more or less told me I was full of it... it may have been a pixie??)
A movie rating may actually be different between provinces here... and it would be my experience in Ontario is that we have lower ratings than the U.S.
We also have detailed speculations we need to post on the poster (Drug abuse, sexual content, coarse language ect.) It's up to the parent to decide if the film is appropriate for their family.

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-03-2009, 11:51 PM:

David, I am rather impressed you were able to guess that it was Cinemark--there are much larger cinema's here in Houston (AMC 20, Tinseltown, etc..). I think those theaters actually need to worry more about not having brain wraps every day before worrying about their programming time(both Cinemark and AMC had to cancel midnight showings of Transformers half way through the screening for wraps).

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 07-03-2009, 11:56 PM:

Brad, I love your theory and wow, there are some situations I would have liked to use that.

I always disliked cutting those green bands off, especially when sound for the trailer started on the green band and was cut off. The things you do for your paycheck sometimes. [Frown]

AJG

Posted by Jonathan Althaus (Member # 5042) on 07-04-2009, 12:02 AM:

(Cinemark employee here) I've never completely understood our reasoning for cutting off green band, seeing as it can be extremely useful in showing the rating of the advertised film. The AMC near us used to use green band but a few months ago stopped for an unknown reason. Since our region leader and VP/Director of theatre operations is visiting tomorrow, I'll ask for reasoning.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 07-04-2009, 12:03 AM:

Brad, I love your theory and wow, there are some situations I would have liked to use that.

I always disliked cutting those green bands off, especially when sound for the trailer started on the green band and was cut off. The things you do for your paycheck sometimes. [Frown]

AJG

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-04-2009, 12:14 AM:

Having worked for Cinemark for a few years in the late 80s, when I first started I asked why it was policy to cut the green bands off and the reason given was because the green bands showed too much dirt and scratches. At the time I don't think that company had ever seen a print run for more than a week without being virtually destroyed. It took me probably a year to get the booth operating my way and get rid of the morons they had playing projectionists, but at that point we did have "the best presentation in the entire chain", per Lee Roy Mitchell.

Cinemark has come a long way towards quality over the last however many years. I think they still chop off the green bands out of habit or because they are just so used to it at this point. I never did agree with the policy, but whatever...it wasn't my call to make so into the trash the green bands went.

I've never know AMC's reasoning. Anyone out there have any insight?

Aaron - I have actually used that MANY times on customers (without the "suck it" part, of course). At the time I had the MPAA's phone number memorized and would give it out anytime a gypsy would come in and start the routine.

Posted by Jonathan Althaus (Member # 5042) on 07-04-2009, 12:24 AM:

I like the fact how its policy for no green-bands, yet with d-cinema, the green bands are shown. Guess its easier to cut em off of film than it is to hack a trailer file to have it start playing around 3-4 seconds in.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-04-2009, 02:12 AM:

I like to leave 'em on because it helps show off my clean, sharp print. Plus it provides a nice break between trailers. If a theater shows a shit-ton of trailers, then the audience will moan if they start seeing too many green bands as it signifies "yet another trailer whenisthedamnmoviegonnastart??". Fortunately we do not show a shit-ton of trailers (usually around 4). Like Brad, the only ones who complain about "inappropriate trailers" have been gypsies, though I do once remember a wizard. [Smile]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-04-2009, 04:35 AM:

I tried it for awhile, and found chopping the bands all the way off to be like running your radio show "too tight". In some cases, it's hard to know when one thing stops and another starts. The bands do put a "divider" between the trailers.

I don't have any objection to the bands, only that they are way too long for my taste.

And... leaving a second's worth or so addresses the issue of chopping off any audio.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 07-05-2009, 04:21 PM:

I've had the impression that Cinemark might chop the bands so they can play ignorant about programming guidelines.

I took my son to see Toy Story at a Cinemark theatre and they actually ran a trailer for an R rated movie on the film. I don't remember what it was, but I'm thinking something along the lines of Eraser or Executive Decision.

I have a difficulty buying the argument about saving time because saving 25-30 seconds per show doesn't really affect the operating schedule. I guess it might save some bulb life - if you're getting about 3000 hours on a bulb, saving 30 seconds per show might give you an extra 2-3 days on the bulb.

The Cinemark theatre I used to go to several times a year always had really dirty prints - even 3-4 days after opening. So I can buy the idea that it was because the green bands show the dirt. But this definitely seems like the wrong mentality for fixing the problem.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-05-2009, 06:04 PM:

Reading International's Consolidated Theatres here in Hawaii plays all of their trailers witout the green band and I personally feel it looks good. I may be wrong but I think Regal Theatres here also play trailers without the band. At least, I did not notice them

-Claude

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 07-05-2009, 07:06 PM:

quote: Andy Bajew
I think those theaters actually need to worry more about not having brain wraps every day before worrying about their programming time(both Cinemark and AMC had to cancel midnight showings of Transformers half way through the screening for wraps).

Sorry time to defend myself..... wasn't a brain wrap. The automation got lazy and dropped a four way interlock for no apparent reason.

As for the greend bands, it's policy. Don't know why & I agree it makes things too TV like. I can only speculate but I have always hated how green bands do not have consistency from one to the next. One might be light green the next dark green, one letterboxed to the top to have the next letterboxed to the side.

Posted by Michael McGovern (Member # 4807) on 07-05-2009, 08:41 PM:

It's definitely Regal Policy to leave the green ratings band on, it's on their blind check report, and you'll get hell if you cut them off.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 07-05-2009, 08:43 PM:

I saw Ice Age 3 at a Cinemark today, first time I've been there in a while (usually go to a Regal, where the green bands are always intact). It struck me that the transitions from one trailer to the next were jarring. I like the green bands. They should be left on unless there's something horribly wrong with how they're printed. Period.

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-05-2009, 10:01 PM:

quote: Fred Tucker
wasn't a brain wrap. The automation got lazy and dropped a four way interlock for no apparent reason.

Not to put Cinemark down, I never would, but all the lobby staff announced apparently was that the projector had broken. I tend to recommend people go to a Cinemark over most any other theater. Unless they want some beer and food with their movie, than I tell them to come to the Alamo Drafthouse Cinema.

AMC tends to be the theater that cancels the most movies for brain wraps. One of our new projectionists is from AMC--what fun that was training him.

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 07-05-2009, 11:02 PM:

Actually, I'm with AMC. Out of curiosity what is the name of your new projectionist and which location did he come from?

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-05-2009, 11:06 PM:

The projectionist who now works with us is from AMC 20 in Katy. His name was Nick--I don't believe it would be appropriate to say his last name without his consent. He had seven months on the job at AMC, but it was about a year from leaving AMC to coming here to Alamo.

With regard to AMC, is it true that every single usher is trained in booth operation and they switch off every other day running the booth?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-06-2009, 12:08 AM:

I doubt that's true. Training everyone is about the worst thing you can do. However some theaters have been known to do just that.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-06-2009, 03:27 AM:

quote: Andy Bajew
With regard to AMC, is it true that every single usher is trained in booth operation and they switch off every other day running the booth?

No. AMC doesn't do that; or at least the AMC I'm at and the one I was at (which had also been a Loews/Cineplex Odeon) before moving here didn't do it either.

quote: Andy Bajew
Not to put Cinemark down, I never would, but all the lobby staff announced apparently was that the projector had broken.

You have to consider (as you should or likely do know) that lobby staff generally know little about film and make statements that show it.

Posted by Tom Inglis (Member # 5181) on 07-06-2009, 03:43 AM:

obviously in the UK we don't have your MPAA green bands, we have BBFC certificates before trailers. Oddly, most trailers come without it. But it's our policy that we cut the cert if there's no sound, and keep it if there is sound on the cert.

We have a company logo that precedes all the trailers saying they're all suitable for the cert of the feature, so there's no real need for them. They tend to all be pretty old and crap anyway, so we ditch em if we can.

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 07-07-2009, 03:29 AM:

No AMC doesnt do that, though most people that work at my theatre that are over 18 are atleast given a shot at working in the booth.

Katy Mills does not have a presentation manager so it's quite possible he was never properly trained. I've gone over there several times to fix things, I'm horrible with names otherwise I'd probably remember him.

Is it the Alamo in West Oaks that you work at? I think Tim Reed used to service that theatre back in the day.

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-08-2009, 04:36 AM:

No, I work at the Mason Park location. The West Oaks location has nicer equipment--like tension arms that shut off the projector when the brain is wrapping, whereas we know we are having a brain wrap when we hear the gate pop open and the shredding of film. The AMC projectionist you asked me about told me he "doesn't need to be trained how to fix a brain wrap because he will never have one." I simply said "when you have a wrap on an interlock, you are going to wish you took my training."

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 07-08-2009, 04:41 AM:

I hate to hear that, people that dont want to take instruction DO NOT last in my booth! I learn something new in booth everyday, not many if any of us know everything.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-08-2009, 04:44 AM:

I do. [Razz]

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-08-2009, 04:47 AM:

Fred,
He typically works the opening shift, but I am sure no one would be surprised to hear that after his comments.

Joe,
I wouldn't be surprised. I can recall on several occasions I have quoted to a manager or another projectionist something you have said--giving you credit, of course. I think once I figure out how to reroute the soda machine into the booth I will be content with my knowledge of the booth.

Posted by Fred Tucker (Member # 4482) on 07-08-2009, 09:56 AM:

Re-routing the coke tower into booth is the easy part, getting corporate to approve it on the other hand.....

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-08-2009, 01:34 PM:

quote: Andy Bajew
The AMC projectionist you asked me about told me he "doesn't need to be trained how to fix a brain wrap because he will never have one." I simply said "when you have a wrap on an interlock, you are going to wish you took my training."

Am I understanding you correctly that you feel he doesn't currently have the adequate training to work on his own, yet he still works on his own at your theater?

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-08-2009, 02:24 PM:

If he didn't have adequate training, he wouldn't be working in the booth. They changed training to one week, rather than two--ultimately I have to train at a faster pace that is still as effective. I think every projectionist I have ever worked with has learned how to fix a brain wrap on their own. It was only recently that I started keeping training films on 6K's so I could simulate for trainees how to fix a brain wrap. Their final test is that I will go through a few of the projectors and mess up anywhere from 5-10 things and they have to be able to notice every error without me telling them the projector is messed up. That and I drop in randomly to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to be doing once they start working on their own.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-08-2009, 03:02 PM:

Wow, its easily been over 10 years since I've had a brain wrap. So retro!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-08-2009, 03:14 PM:

Unless the platter fails (which has happened to me with the crappy Strong microswitch brains that stick "on"), then any brain wrap would be operator error. More effort should be given on how to thread properly and how brainwraps could be caused if they don't. As for fixing a brainwrap, then they must sit there and spin, spin spin the deck in the opposite direction of the wrap (usually with one hand on the actual wrap) until it is fixed. Tell them that there is usually no quick and easy way to fix it, and they must pay the price for causing it to wrap in the first place. All customer complaints should be directed towards that person.

And yeah, play the green band. [Wink]

Posted by Andy Bajew (Member # 5330) on 07-08-2009, 03:18 PM:

Well Brad, I am sure you have equipment that actually works right. Our projectors are 28 years old, bought by corporate office off of eBay. The platters are made by ORC which apparently don't even have parts made for them anymore. I am sure you also have tension control to prevent brain wraps. However, I have only had one brain wrap in the past year. Most wraps occur because the projectionists are too busy on the computer though. For me, anything that goes wrong is because I am on Film-Tech hah.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-08-2009, 04:23 PM:

Wherever it is that you work, your corporate needs to take the booth seriously. Without the movie, you've got NOTHING! I don't care how pretty your lobby is, how comfortable your chairs are or how spectacularly friendly your staff is. At the end of the day without the movie you have no customers meaning NONE of that matters.

People don't have to buy the Cadillac of equipment, and going used does not automatically mean bad news, but I have no sympathy for people that have problems who bought cheap shit equipment based upon its price (which is obviously what they did). When it is all said and done, they would have to pay more money to find projectionists who are good enough to work with shit gear to not have problems. Sure there are always those people (probably like yourself) that work for nothing and work your butt off to put on a good show, but that is rare.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-08-2009, 05:51 PM:

What theater buys projection equipment off of eBay?

Anyway, the tension devices on the platters do more to exacerbate a brain wrap rather than prevent them at my theater. This is because we have the crappy FP-350 optical failsafes which allow the film to continue by dumping it on the floor (its design does not allow it to see when the platter is not taking up). The platter, which has stopped due to the tension-safe shutting it down, now wraps tighter and much more quickly and we also get bent rollers and shafts which I discover and have to fix when I come in after a few days off (hasn't happened in a while, though). Someday when I have time I will wire the wrap detector to the automation fail safe input instead of the platter itself.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 07-08-2009, 08:39 PM:

quote: Andy Bajew
Our projectors are 28 years old

It all comes down to maintenance. Our projectors are first generation Vic 8's from the early 60's and they never cause any damage. I own parts of the cinemas original projectors a pre-1920 Simplex Standard. Causes no damage.

quote: Joe Redifer
What theater buys projection equipment off of eBay?

Pre-show DVD projector lamps? [dlp]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-08-2009, 10:20 PM:

That doesn't count! Every theater should have a real cinema supplier.

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 07-08-2009, 11:35 PM:

I think ebay is amazing when you're looking for equipment for smaller operations without a giant bank account. The new stuff is very expensive, older stuff that on occasion breaks is cheaper and gives the projectionist something to do (and you learn a lot more too).

Gotta go... looking for old SCSI teac drives online...

oh, and cut those green bands off [Smile]

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 07-08-2009, 11:56 PM:

I have 2 projectors older than me and 4 about my age. What is my age you ask how rude! But to answer the question I'm 54 right now for about two more months. One projector is is early 40's I think, not 40 years old it was made in the early 40's.

It isn't the age that matters it is the way it is maintained. I have a friend with vintage 1890 something Edison cylinder phono that works great. Now the music recordings are not the best but it works. You think many of the CD players around will still be working in 120 years?

Maybe Joe's but then he can fix anything!

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-09-2009, 02:42 AM:

quote: Andy Bajew
If he didn't have adequate training, he wouldn't be working in the booth.

I was just asking for clarification. It seemed like you were implying that he might be still doing much the same as before, but you maybe weren't in charge and couldn't do anything about it.