Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What model Simplex is this?

This is topic What model Simplex is this? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009974

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-07-2009, 02:42 AM:

I was perusing some old pictures of mine and came across a theater I had opened in 1997... maybe 1998 or so. The theater had these Simplexes installed in them and they seem like a hack job to me. Look at the turret. The body of the projector almost looks like it was hacked up just to accommodate the turret. There is a weird box for the aperture which has the wiring going to it externally. As goofy as I think Strong is, this cannot be something that they officially offered at one time... can it? The gate and intermittent look like some sort of weird precursor to the Millenium. Check it out:

So whaddya think? Chopped up XL or something truly "special" from Strong?

Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 07-07-2009, 06:06 AM:

It looks like a Kelmar aperture changer/turret retrofit mod.
Tim.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-07-2009, 06:10 AM:

Hey, that looks like one of Mark's hatchet jobs!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-07-2009, 06:37 AM:

Wow, that's ugly.

What happened to the SDDS reader in the second picture?

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-07-2009, 06:58 AM:

To me it looks like a Simplex PR1060 with a retro gate and turret. Can't tell without a closer look at the trap. Or a modified PR1014. It looks like it had a door at one time.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-07-2009, 08:26 AM:

Doubtful as most of my hatchet jobs were done to old cast iron Century C's. I did just a handful of Simplex X-L/Kelmars. I did however do close to a hundred TU-2000's on Simplexs in my shop. The Kelmar turrett is actually not all that bad when set up properly. The trap uses regular Simplex gate bands. The main thing with these is to have the turrett motor timming set just exactly right or eventually the chain that drives the turrett will snap fomr too much load. I prefer the manual version of the Kelmar...
Ben Kehe did alot more Simplex/Kelmars than anyone else I know... Most of them I believe he did for UA.

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-07-2009, 08:31 AM:

Mark has it right. They work really well IF you understand them. If not, then you think they are horrible,

I ONLY use Kelmar electric turrets. I do not "appreciate" the complexity of the TU-2000 turret. Louis

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-07-2009, 12:10 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
What happened to the SDDS reader in the second picture?

That's a different projector. I think it was a 10-plex and they were all like this. Some houses were SDDS and others were DTS. No Dolby Digital, oddly.

And this was a United Artists.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-07-2009, 12:39 PM:

Looks like that would definitely keep a steady image on the screen....

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-07-2009, 01:28 PM:

I find the Kelmar trap assembly probably the worst designed trap ever and frankly the turret little better

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-07-2009, 01:36 PM:

So, why would anyone do this? From the pictures, it seems that a perfectly good machine has now been made noisier (no door), light-leakier (door and much of front casting have been remved), and non-code-compliant (in Mass. and probably elsewhere, all booth wiring must be in conduit). In addition, the aperture plate is now harder to file (due to having two formats on one plate), there are more moving parts to fail, and there is increased potential for aperture and/or lens misalignment.

It appears that the only real benefit is the ability to do automated format changes. Does anyone really do this enough to justify all the disadvantages mentioned above?

(I don't generally like lens turrets, anyway, and this one in particular seems to have more liabilities than benefits.)

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 07-07-2009, 01:38 PM:

Definitely a Kelmar "upgrade" turret. Kelmar Turret

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-07-2009, 01:43 PM:

quote: Gordon McLeod
I find the Kelmar trap assembly probably the worst designed trap ever and frankly the turret little better

Well, its alot LESS complicated then the Simplex Gate and trap and far less parts too. I agree with Louis... if you understand it you get great results if not you'll get your fingers caught in the mouse trap. The Cast Iron Centurys I did are still running to this day and are this customers favorite projectors. I don't find the TU-2000 difficult personally... I had just started making my own before I moved to Utah...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-07-2009, 03:34 PM:

Scott; well you are not wrong! However, turrets have the capacity to eliminate dropping or breaking the lens or its elements. They are (almost) idiot proof. Louis

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-07-2009, 06:46 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
have the capacity to eliminate dropping or breaking the lens or its elements

Unfort, when a plex has booth clowns operating the machines and run the things in either manual or push on the cue defeat button on the automation, which leaves the dowser open and lamp on, you definitely have a few cases of busted elements ... and they have the TU-2000 turrets.

Also, with manual TU-2000 turrets, booth clowns love to use the scope lens to rotate the turret - slam it around to where the elements inside work themselves loose and rotate within the barrel themselves, or manage to unlock the locking ring on the attachment and they wonder why their scope presentations are always out of focus.

-Monte

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-07-2009, 09:09 PM:

Monte... If it's the rear element or the one in behind that which is breaking then it may be from leaving the lamp run through the lens for too long.

Mark

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-07-2009, 11:23 PM:

Anyway, I assume one would install these projectors in a new build when the theater itself is a rather low priority? It was a new theater, but it was in a mall in a town that really doesn't have any other theaters.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-08-2009, 12:39 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
leaving the lamp run through the lens for too long.

Yep, so far there has been 3 breakages and one rear element is cloudy.