Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: I'm looking for images to demonstrate proper framing

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-02-2009, 07:41 AM:

I have a guide that I show new projectionists to help them understand the importance of framing - as well as aspect ratios. I was hoping to update this with some images that actually include boom mikes in the frame. Right now I only have an image with the helicopter in The Shining.

Aspect ratio and framing info

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 08-02-2009, 09:05 AM:

I know this doesn't help you now, but if anyone has access to a 35mm print of Hitchcock's "North by Northwest", there's a lot there.

They showed this a couple of years ago at the Ohio Theatre in Columbus, OH. Unfortunately, the projectionist looked at the frame, saw it wasn't scope but did fill the entire 35mm frame, and ran it 1.33. No amount of begging and cajoling on my part could convince anyone at the theatre that it was the wrong aspect ratio.

When Thornhill is crawling around the exterior of Vandamm's house, there's a part where lighting equipment occupies a good portion of the upper-left frame area.

Later, when Thornhill, Kendall, and the Professor are in the fake redwood forest, the top of the cyclorama, including lighting trusses and possibly crew, are clearly visible, as are the flat tops of the mock trees.

There are a lot more examples in there.

Talk about one of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had as an attendee. They also ran "Animal House" 1.33, which had lots of mic booms, etc.

-David

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-02-2009, 01:09 PM:

For formats:

Easy way is to grab two trailers: one scope and one flat and get to the green "approval" header.

Have them look at the flat in this section and describe how the image looks normal. - then -

Have them look at the scope in this section and describe how the image looks squeezed being of the 2.00:1 compression ratio.

For framing:

Scope framing is a no-brainer: images always uses the entire frame size and with visible frame lines (and they should be punished for splicing out of frame...unexcusable.. [Big Grin]

)

Flat framing: with the common 1.85:1 aperture and most of the flat films printed in full frame, the guide would be to keep the heads of the subjects, when at medium to close range, in the screen's image - no 'chopping off the tops of the heads'. If your 'chopping', then the frame has to be lowered a bit so you can see the character's head fully but just below the top of the screen.

Now, if you're showing hard matted 1.85:1 flat movies, have them frame where the top of the film's frame just disappears over the top of the screen.

-Monte

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-02-2009, 06:07 PM:

Here's a little chart that shows the difference between scope and flat.

http://www.film-tech.com/ubbpics/FlatScope.pdf

I made it several years ago when I worked at Cinemark. It has since become ubiquitous in Cinemark projeciton booths.

Since nobody ever paid me for making it, I see no reason to keep it under wraps if it will help other people do a better job.

[ 08-03-2009, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 08-03-2009, 09:18 AM:

The Advanced Projection Manual, ISBN 2-9600296-1-5, devotes chapter 4 to picture formats and aspect ratios. It includes photos and drawings to illustrate many formats.

It is still available from the George Eastman House Web store.

books

quote:
The Advanced Projection Manual -
Presenting Classic Films in a Modern Projection Environment
By Torkell Sætervadet

$80.00
The first authoritative publication of the 21st century to address the important technical issues relating to establishing and maintaining professional standards for film projection and sound systems in archives, museums, cinematheques, repertory theaters and other institutions committed to the authentic exhibition of archivally preserved motion pictures. An essential volume for the library of every audio-visual archivist, and a valuable ready-reference for every projection booth and theatrical venue where serious attention is paid to high quality film exhibition.

Posted by Jack Theakston (Member # 4484) on 08-04-2009, 01:26 PM:

Framing a flat film is as simple as telling the person: "Frame so that the studio logo is centered."

You should also explain the rule of thirds, Justin. Most DPs compose their pictures so that the eyes line up on the top third line.

Posted by Ottilie Young (Member # 4195) on 08-13-2009, 12:33 PM:

Hi:

Recently we showed _Anatomy of a Murder_. It was shot, along with several other films from that period, to be shown in either 1.37 and 1.85. We had quite an extensive argument in the booth until someone found a thread on the internet discussing this (which of course I now cannot find)! We ended up at 1.85, but it seemed cramped and what seemed like the "natural" cropping would shift from shot to shot.

My assumption was that it was coincidental with showing films on TV.

Ottilie Young

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-13-2009, 01:47 PM:

Why is this even a question? Just as framing Scope or 1.37 is a no brainer, properly adjusting the framing position for 1.85 is a no brainer as well. The instructions to newbies is simple: YOU DON'T adjust proper framing of 1.85 by eyeballing anything on the screen -- that is not accurate enough and it's unnecessary if you are threading properly.

If you thread up the leader so that any full frame count down number, say 11 Academy any number in the SMPTE leader is in the gate and adjusted so that it is sitting framed correctly as if you were projecting scope, i.e., your framing adjustment is properly set so that your scope picture is not showing frame lines, then your 1.85 image will be exactly where it is supposed to be in the aperture. No "racking" will be needed to visually find the "center" of the frame in 1.85 where the image it left unmatted full-frame.

Occasionally a newbie might find a print where even the leader is hard matted so that might pose a problem for them if they can't find a single full, 4 sprocket high frame -- OK, just let them get another piece of film WITH full, 4 sprocket high countdown frames and thread on that -- center the framing adjustment so it is properly adjusted and then thread the hard matted film -- LEAVE THE FRAMIMG KNOB UNTOUCHED. Once it is adjusted so the intermittant is centered, there is no reason to ever move it again, asssuming no out-of-frame splices, which is a separate issue they also need instructions about.

Now if only there were a chart to make it easy to get digital aspect ratios to come out correctly on the screen!

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-15-2009, 05:41 AM:

I don't think I didn't really made myself clear in my initial post. This isn't really about training people to properly set/adjust the frame. The reason I'm looking for these pictures is so I can demonstrate the relationship between what's on the frame and what's on the screen, and how framing relates to what is seen on screen. In part it's so they understand what is wrong when a customer complains that they see microphones in the screen.

I think I actually use this more for the people I'm training to build-up than the people I'm teaching to thread.

When I train someone to thread, proper framing is one of the points I absolutely hammer home. "Setting the intermittent and having the sound track out when threading the projector are the two critical things...". Without actually keeping a running total, I would estimate we are out of frame at startup less than 1 in 500 showings. That works out to once every 2-3 weeks, and it's probably less frequent than that.

For what it's worth, I also teach my people to know what lens, aperture plate, and masking setting are for flat and scope. By that I mean teaching them to know by looking at the actual item, rather than just "knowing" it's the other one. I will actually take the two plates and hold them up to see if they recognize which is which.

I know all of this should be more or less standard training for anyone handling film, but we all know it's not what actually happens in the average multiplex.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-15-2009, 08:34 AM:

In one of the booths where we have five len & plate combinations, I have taken to painting the plate handle (the black bakelite on the Simplex) with model paint and put a band of the same color on the lens barrel (one wrap of matching colored electrical tape). Yellow for 1.85, Red for scope, White for 1.37, Blue for 1.66 and Black for Silent. This way, all they have to do is match the ring on the lens to the aperture plate color handle -- makes it really hard for anyone to muck it up as an error will be staring them in the face. It's even saved me on occasion.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-15-2009, 09:58 AM:

I do a similar thing but I simply paint the numbers on the handle of the plate and on the edge of the lens collar that shows inside the projector.

If you look at the label of a film can that lists the aspect ratio or on a written message you will always see a number. I believe it's a lot easier just to tell people that the numbers all have to match.

A projectionist should know what an aspect ratio is. He doesn't have to have every possible aspect ratio memorized. He just has to know what "aspect ratio" means and that there is a specific lens-plate combination for every one.

Numbers are all that he needs to know, even if he doesn't know what all the numbers mean. Simply "Match all the numbers."

Having to correlate "Yellow" with "1.85" and "Blue" with "2.39" and "Red" with "1.78", etc., etc. could become even more confusing.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 08-15-2009, 10:15 AM:

I think Frank means colors in addition to numbers. It's a nice quick check to be able to see that the plate you have in the machine matches the lens in the machine.

Trying to read a number off the plate in the machine may be impossible for some styles of plates, and reading numbers off of lenses can be difficult at best.

That said, we don't really color our aperature plates, though some of them happen to have colors that are handy for ID-ing. And we did color our undercut scope plates (for emergency shrunken film) bright vermilion after somebody used them accidently.

--jhawk