Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "9" Reel 2 Changeover Confusion

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Posted by Michael McGovern (Member # 4807) on 09-04-2009, 02:34 PM:

Has anyone else had to build this film and get confused on where Reel 2 ends? There's a letter in the can stating that Reel 2 ends with what looks like the tail end of the film, but is actually part of the film that needs to be played before the changeover to reel 3, but they don't exactly make it clear where the cut it. There are 2 frames indicating where to cut, but they come immediately after the film portion of the reel, and before this mysterious tail starts that is supposed to be part of the film. I finally cut it right before what I assume is the real tail of reel 2, and not the one that's part of the film, so hopefully I did this right. Why must they make these things so complicated?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-04-2009, 03:19 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
All current prints from the major labs have now standardized to 18 frames of content after the last changeover cue.

And from that same thread...

quote: Dustin Mitchell
if a theatre doesn't have a frame counter, you can take a leader from another reel without a fade out, lay it over the one you are looking to cut, line up the '3' mark, and then cut the fade out leader. I usually use an extra splicer to get both leaders lined up right.

Hope that helps

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-04-2009, 11:21 PM:

It's puzzling why editorial would place something like this at the end (or beginning) of a reel.

I remember "The Kentucky Fried Movie" had a portion of a shaky, splicy SMPTE leader (from a phoney "educational film" segment in the movie) right at the head of a reel. Although a note on the reel band said the second leader was part of the movie, and even though it was noticeably smaller in the frame than the real leader... it was inevitably cut off in sub-runs. After a while, the footage would be totally missing from prints I received on the midnight circuit.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-05-2009, 08:58 AM:

Reminds me of the fake film break in the beginning of "The Projectionist".

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-05-2009, 09:29 AM:

I can't remember the film (Zabriski Point, maybe) where the changeover went to a shot of the sun, which looked just like there was no film in the projector. I always thank editors for the little changeover heart attack when you think something has gone horribly wrong because of where they decided to end a reel.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-05-2009, 10:25 AM:

Or just line a few days ago when I ran a screening of "World's Greatest Dad" and the first thing on screen (after a tag for one of the companies that funded the movie that got added) were the words "THE END" but printed backwards (as in looking like you were running it starting at the tail). I immediately went into "WTF? Did I build the whole damn thing backwards? I couldn't have." And right when I was about to freak more, the beginning of the movie itself started.

When I was tearing it down I double-checked and yes, the head of reel 1 was printed like that, though I assume regular release prints won't have this issue.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-05-2009, 01:40 PM:

quote: Chris Slycord
When I was tearing it down I double-checked and yes, the head of reel 1 was printed like that, though I assume regular release prints won't have this issue.

Chris, what do you mean by regular release prints? It's part of the movie, no? Why wouldn't all prints have this?

Posted by Jake Spell (Member # 5294) on 09-05-2009, 07:16 PM:

Could it be the logo of one of the companies making the film?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-05-2009, 09:11 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
Chris, what do you mean by regular release prints? It's part of the movie, no? Why wouldn't all prints have this?

Because I'm pretty sure it was a misprint just on this particular print (which I believe isn't going to be the same as the final one used). The words appeared on screen completely wrong and the frames looked pretty much identical to what appears at the actual end of the movie (just printed so that the words would show on screen wrong).

But of course I could be wrong. [Smile]

quote: Jake Spell
Could it be the logo of one of the companies making the film?

Don't think so. It definitely wasn't part of the aforementioned company logo tag I referred to earlier, as that had been added (spliced) to the front of the reel before I got it and the aforementioned upside-down words were printed as part of the reel itself.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-05-2009, 09:39 PM:

Chris, I think that's it....it's the name of the production company. I saw it on cable PPV and that's the way it started, with THE END upside down and a bit shakey. Evidently someone in this company thought this was a clever name. Real clever -- half the the booth gorillas will lop the company name off the head of the prints!

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-06-2009, 12:07 AM:

Come to think of it, during that section, there was sound playing that seemed like it was supposed to be showcasing something important; so I guess you're probably right and there's a company called "The End" that helps fund movies and makes their tag/logo like that.

I just figured with the random stuff they had already added to the head that this was an error.

I fail.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 09-06-2009, 12:45 AM:

Edit: Never mind. I see it.