Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New power station

This is topic New power station - need to be concerned? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 09-23-2009, 08:28 AM:

There is a new power station coming online in our city over the next week or so. we have all been told to expect some minor power outages and to make sure that all sensitive equipment is properly protected behind ripple filters.

How does this affect conema equipment?

in our case, we have no battery or generator backup, and the rectifiers are tied right into a three phase supply from a local substation.

Do i need to worry about the rectifiers / lamps?

should i make sure all the sound equipment is plugged into a surge protector?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-23-2009, 09:28 AM:

A night when the theater is closed you can unplug any sensitive equipment or open all the circuit breakers leading to any other equipment you need to protect. It'll be a pain in the butt having to disconnect everything at night and reconnect it in the morning.

If the theater is open there isn't much you can do. You must have the electricity on or you can't do business.

Short of all this, getting surge protection for all your sensitive equipment is the only thing I can think of.

You can always use this as an excuse to get some. [Wink]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-23-2009, 10:26 AM:

If you have any "on all the time" digital gear it should be on a UPS. Also, consult with the power company to see when it is comming on-line so you can be shut down... if you or they feel that is even necessary.

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-23-2009, 10:41 AM:

I would assume that these people are professionals who know how to deliver power correctly so there should be no concern.

BTW: for the US folks: 240/50Hz in Britain also they tend to have markedly fewer power transformers in an area unlike here where there is a transformer for almost every business. This matters a little bit since loads on the secondary "talk" to each other more in the UK. Louis

Posted by Matt Skilton (Member # 5288) on 09-23-2009, 12:02 PM:

We've been having a few power surges these past few weeks and it creates a tense atmosphere because one nearly caused everything to shut off. All you can do is be prepared to leg it round your booth(s) to make sure everything is okay. However, one surge caused our digital projector to change format. Instead of playing on full screen it decided to only play the image on the left hand side. Easily fixed by hitting the desired format button but I was worried for a moment.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 09-23-2009, 12:43 PM:

thanks for the info guys!

i will call the natiuonal grid tomorrow to clarify the situation and see what they recommend. for the moment, everything important is now on surge protectors (should have always been really!) and the sound rack is on a new UPS.

will let you know what they say

Posted by Gordon Bachlund (Member # 124) on 09-23-2009, 01:06 PM:

Echoing Randy, I would recommend the addition of Transient Voltage Surge Supressors. With the proper unit, this can be done at the main service switchboard, assuming there is room for the required circuit breaker or fused switch.

As for Gavin's situation, it appears he is well covered.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-23-2009, 07:38 PM:

I have a question about surge protection equipment.

I know that the majority of those surge protection gizmos that you install into your home breaker panels are mostly snake oil. But, in the last few years I've seen special circuit breakers that are supposed to trip or something if there is a surge on the line.

You can buy a standard circuit breaker from Home Depot for an average of $10.00. These special anti-surge breakers were nearly $100.00. I just can't see how one of these devices could do anything more than an ordinary surge suppressor does.

Anybody know about these things? Are they worth it? Or are they just snake oil like everything else?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-23-2009, 08:35 PM:

I have had good luck with all the TVSS units that one adds to the side of the breaker panel
again one must read the specs and determin the amount of protection one needs

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 09-24-2009, 05:24 AM:

Well i hope your transition is smoother than ours. They traded our 8 big diesels for 6 gas turbines couple of years back , our power has never been more unreliable every time we have bad weather power is off.
We are supposed to be 240vac it varies from 230v to 260v. it has cost us dearly with burn out power supplies we now run everything we can on UPS. lately we have been experiencing expolding transformers all over the town.

Lucky we have a 80kva John Deere gen set for backup and we put the new digital on a real big UPS.

Sometimes the new technology does not always work as planned.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-24-2009, 02:19 PM:

FWIW: The company I worked for went on a turbine kick in the 1970s and installed them in many new locations. Now that most of them have reached their end of life cycle they are being (have been) replaced with diesels. I'm told they found the turbines to be maintenance hogs and not as reliable.

I do remember during one particularly harsh winter storm we took all of our COs off of the grid and ran engines for four days. That helped the utilities in four states meet the unprecedented demand.

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 09-24-2009, 09:59 PM:

The other big issue with our new gas turbine power station was the location, they built it at the local wharf about 300 yards from the ocean, the wharf being the towns largest power consumer they wanted to bypass the state owned distribution system.

Just after being commissioned we suffered a big storm, high seas etc, the turbines sucked in heaps of seawater spray and 5 of the six turbines were wrecked and the sixth one was outputting half power. most of the town was blacked out for 3 days until skid mounted gensets could be trucked in from the city. we were real glad we had our John Deere to rely on during that period.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 09-24-2009, 11:53 PM:

well, i called the national grid yesterday, and they said there might be a concern as we have a straight tie in to the 3 phase, but not to be too worried. Most of the transitions are going to happen between 2am and 5am so i will keep everything isolated at the breakers for the next 2 weeks.

It is worrying considering the station is going to be the UK's largest gas turbine station, and some of you have not had much luck with them!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-25-2009, 02:13 PM:

Over here they m,ainly use gas turbine stations as peakers when the grid drops below a certain voltage. The peakers help keep them constant during high demand periods.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-25-2009, 08:34 PM:

Make a plan of what to do if there is a power outage when shows are running (to minimize damage, and keep customers happy).

If you are in an old building which has been upgraded (screens added etc.) over time make sure that you (and all your tech staff) know where all the breaker switches are for your site, and what keys they need to access them.

Work out what equipment/screen is on each phase as you may not loose all three phases. (I was very puzzled the first time that happened when I was working)

quote: Gavin Lewarne
Most of the transitions are going to happen between 2am and 5am so i will keep everything isolated at the breakers for the next 2 weeks.

It may be worth looking at the non projection kit as well, however some of this will have to be left on (fridges, box office servers etc.)

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 09-25-2009, 08:49 PM:

Ironically,(in terms of this thread) my theater here in
San Francisco lost power yesterday just as I was heading
up the stairs to the booth to start the first matinee.

A quick check of my alarm annunciator panel showed that
the whole buidling was out. I looked out the front door
and I could see that the outage extended for at least
several blocks in each direction from the theater.

First thing I did was to kill all the circuit breakers
to the booths and also pull all the plugs on the ticketing
computers and printers in case the power didn't come back
on "clean".

The outage lasted several hours, so I took advantage
of the situation to check that all the emergency exit
signs and path lights were functioning properly, and
then I fixed a flakey connection in an old electrical
panel back stage that was going to require turning
off the main power to the building anyway.

I started work early yesterday morning to do some
maintenence, and I didn't want to have to stay late
making up my two new shows once the power came back
on, so I managed to get them made up using hand
rewinds and an LED lantern.

I tried to convince 'the boss' that mabye we should
begin eating all the ice cream in our freezer before
it melted. . . but he didn't fall for that one!

(But I did manage to convince him to let me eat at
least one- - just be sure it wasn't getting too soft!) [Big Grin]

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 09-26-2009, 06:04 AM:

quote:
It is worrying considering the station is going to be the UK's largest gas turbine station, and some of you have not had much luck with them!

long as they don't build it right on the seafront and the distribution system is reasonable you should be ok.

I think a large part of our hassles are the 2008 high tech power plant feeding a 1940's grid. and the fact they built it on the beach.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-26-2009, 02:16 PM:

quote: Gavin Lewarne
It is worrying considering the station is going to be the UK's largest gas turbine station

It is also well timed as the UK is now a net importer of gas.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 09-27-2009, 03:13 AM:

well, had some power outages now, only minor 5 / 10 minute ones. all late at night after we have shut down. Funny thing was one of them occured just AFTER i had turned everything off for the night, and i meand literally 3 seconds later!

so far with everything as well protected as it can be had not had any problems. No, it is not being built by the sea. instead they have built it in a location that frequently suffers extreme snow during the winter months. Would have thought diesel / nuclear would be a better option. oh well, here is to greenpeace and its anti-nuclear campaign of the 60s.

On a side not, i have often wondered how much cleaner our atmosphere would be today if greenpeace and similar organisations had not been so successfull in stopping the nuclear expansion fof the 50s / 60s / 70s. oh the irony!