Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Soloist

This is topic The Soloist - what happened?? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010105

Posted by Matt Skilton (Member # 5288) on 09-26-2009, 08:44 AM:

The Soloist has just been released here in the UK and consequently we were given a used US print. It's one of the worse prints I've come across. There's emulsion scratching through-out all the reels, base scratching through-out two reels and a series of some red blobs/stains in one reel.

We requested some replacement reels for the worse offenders but we were told that everyone has had similar problems and so more are having to be ordered and shipped from the US, which means we wont get them until next week if we're lucky.

I'm certain no one here is responsible, but it's always 'heart-in-mouth' moments when films like this have long release delays in the UK because it usually means it's ganna be a used US print. Nightmare.

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 09-26-2009, 09:19 AM:

The United States is the greatest country in the world. Expect nothing but the perfection and high quality from us [Cool]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-26-2009, 01:02 PM:

The Blu-ray was released ages ago. Just run that.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-26-2009, 02:18 PM:

At least they went to the effort to put new wrappers on each of the reels before sending them out, just to increase the sense of disappointment.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-26-2009, 03:13 PM:

Anyway, as I was saying (or not), it just goes to show how little importance most exhibitors in the US place on quality presentations. They just do not care, especially at the sub-run level.

We hired a projectionist from the sub-run theater across the street from where I was working once and I started to re-train him. He walked out and quit after only threading 7 projectors, telling the manager that he "just couldn't do it" in reference to putting up with my method of training, saying that I was too much of a hard-ass or some such thing (those whom I train from scratch never have issues like that). I had told him that he'd have to step up his game if he wanted to work with me, but apparently he couldn't. It kind of made me proud that he quit like that. What's even more interesting is that after I left that theater, they immediately hired THAT SAME GUY as my replacement. I guess he had 4 out of frame splices that week, two of which wouldn't even make it through the projector. Oh, all of this was on the same print. I also heard that he stopped movies during the show to change cues. They fired him after a week or two. Anyway this guy is probably a good representation of the average US projectionist, maybe a touch worse.

If you had gotten one of my prints of The Soloist, it would have been in perfect shape. Too bad.

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 09-26-2009, 05:42 PM:

Joe: That is hardly my experience with second run theatres.

There's only one 2nd-run multiplex around here, but I have seen prints, literally last showing, last night on the 2ND RUN, without any scratches, or very minimal scratching.

So there are some real top-notch theatres, even chains out there.

At the same time, I have seen abysmal, abysmal, abysmal looking prints the first week in a big multiplex.

I've seen films with five scratches running down the entirety. I'd have to TRY to accomplish a feat like that.

There is no reason or rhyme to it. Quality on the whole is terrible, but it ultimately comes down to individuals and how much they care. Even with the best training, many multiplexes just have one person upstairs running things, and it is ultimately up to that person how much training they want to ignore or follow.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-26-2009, 06:19 PM:

No, it's not about caring. Most operators in this day and age don't even understand the job, let alone care about it.

People care about their jobs only insofar as they can understand it. Most people in projection booths understand so little about their jobs that they can barely function. They operate at such a low level that they can't even fathom running the booth without damaging the film. Film "just gets scratched".

If they understood their jobs they would know that they can run a movie without grinding the film to pieces. If they knew that they would CARE about doing it right.

I see things like this so often that I'm starting to get blind to it.

You read my rants about how people don't even know how to click a computer mouse. I see people like that on an almost daily basis.

Yes, we still have some good operators in projection booths in this day and age but we also have some REELY STOOPIT ones!

Unfortunately, the stoopit ones seem to be in the majority. [Frown]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-26-2009, 06:27 PM:

It's about not caring, otherwise the exhibitors would be sure to make sure the "projectionists" got better training in the first place. As it is, they can't be bothered to do so and would rather the "projectionist" also have shifts and duties downstairs as well.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-26-2009, 06:28 PM:

Yes, but on the other side, being a projectionist is no longer treated like a real career (benefits, etc.) In many places, it really isn't that great of a part time job.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-26-2009, 06:43 PM:

Again, that all comes down to not caring enough about the onscreen presentation to have long-time skilled people up there when you can just train the managers to press a button. So the print gets dirty or scratched. The theater loses it after a couple of weeks. $$$ over all else.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 09-26-2009, 08:15 PM:

Well they ARE paying for it big time now with the D.Cinema conversion. Probably too little to late for the overall health and profitability of the exibition industry.

P.S I probably have Joe's print here in Australia!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-26-2009, 08:32 PM:

quote:
Quality on the whole is terrible,

No it's not. you sound like every print you get is trashed. We play about 40 to 50 used prints a year, and I would say over 95% of them are in perfect shape. The other 5% might have the occasional minor defect here and there, but for us to get an "unwatchable" print is rare, and I'm pretty picky.

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 09-26-2009, 08:42 PM:

Right, 95% of the second-run prints you get (not first run foreign, which is a much bigger audience) are in perfect shape.

Do you think that it is anywhere near that percentage though, of all first run prints that are in perfect shape?

I'd say probably at LEAST 50% of 35mm prints get damaged in some significant way, worldwide, on their first run.

And as for the D-Cinema conversion, the theatres aren't the only ones paying for it; we all are. Let's not pretend for a second that D-Cinema 2K projectors are better than proper 35mm contact prints (before the DI process and the optical printing process got combined in probably the worst possible way, giving the worst elements of both).

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-27-2009, 05:16 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
saying that I was too much of a hard-ass or some such thing (those whom I train from scratch never have issues like that)

That's why I've always trained people from scratch. I trained a couple of "experienced" guys and it was just wasted time. They have been working that way for years, and usually they don't have enough mental flexibility to change their working method.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-27-2009, 09:59 AM:

"Labor" problems are always, by definition, a management failure. If management wanted the situation to improve, then a plan would be enforced. "Fish stinks at the head!" Louis

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-27-2009, 11:02 AM:

Louis -- absolutely correct. Management failure is AWAYS the cause in any industry of bad workmanship. If a worker isn't doing his job properly the reasons are simple -- he hasn't been trained properly or being trained properly, he doesn't give a crap. In both instances, it's management's fault. Either management is at fault for not hiring a skilled worker or for not training the worker in the demands of the job, or if the worker is qualified but does slacker work, then management is at fault for not firing him. Either way, the worker doing lousy work is only the symptom. The core problem is lousy management that isn't doing IT's job.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 09-27-2009, 12:05 PM:

It's not a disaster everywhere. I've had the opportunity to visit two National Amusement locations recently, one locally here in NJ and one two weeks ago in Virginia. Hats off to the people who run the operation.

On both occasions, the booths were spotless, organized and very well run. Nice to know that there are other people out there who are doing things right. [thumbsup]

I've seen dumps in both large and small complexes over the years.

Bottom line is that there is good and bad in every line of work, not just the theatre exhibition industry. Good people produce good results.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-27-2009, 02:07 PM:

I quote Louis 100%.

Posted by Jesse Montoya (Member # 5450) on 10-05-2009, 03:50 AM:

Our print had the same problems basically.
I requested a new print immediately after screening it.
Didn't get it for 2 weeks.
The replacement print was even worse.
R2-5 were all missing SEVERAL MINUTES from the head.
and the the final reel was missing 90% of the credits.

Posted by Matt Skilton (Member # 5288) on 10-05-2009, 05:27 PM:

Wow, I'd be furious if we received a print like that. I feel your pain, Jesse.
We've had one of the replacement reels turn-up but I'm not holding out for the other one to make it. The film hasn't done much so will probably be gone next week any who.

Posted by Tom Inglis (Member # 5181) on 10-08-2009, 05:05 AM:

I work with Matt, and was equally miffed at this. We've since received two used US prints of UP, both of which have scratching on the base side, and we've once again had to order new reels... no news on where they are yet...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-08-2009, 10:12 AM:

I got it! Maybe the UK could fund a program to hire excellent projectionists (NOT booth clowns) for the U.S. so that film would still be good enough to use there. Louis

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 10-08-2009, 12:29 PM:

Worst projection I have ever seen print wise with tramlines was in Hyannis, Cape Cod – 4 screens separated in two buildings run by the same staff of two. On the other side of the road the Airport 8 Movies, so perhaps they run them as well on their own, as when I tried to complain afterwards there was nobody to be seen FOH.

Best projection I saw was for three films at the AMC 10 (now 24) Pleasure Island – Walt Disney World Resort in Florida.

American rejuvenated prints are often a nightmare over here and I have had to reject many of them over the years. However since I have been back on relief projection for the past six months, the USA copy of The Soloist still looks in mint condition. I was told that our copy of UP opening on Friday will be the same.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-08-2009, 01:37 PM:

About 90% of the used prints I get are acceptable--meaning no scratches visible on the screen and SRD that plays no higher than 6. When replacements are requested they always arrive no later than the next day. The DeLuxe prints we get are usually picked up that day from one of the local mpx, one theatre in particular rarely damages a print and I've asked the driver to bring me prints from them whenever possible.

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 10-08-2009, 03:43 PM:

Bill, sounds like a good idea to have a hand-picked driver in your pocket like that.

I am sure that geographic location has a lot to do with print availability as well as print quality.

Anyone care to speculate whether small-town or big city theatres do a worse job with print presentation?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-08-2009, 04:26 PM:

I once sold equipment & supplies to that theatre at Hyannis. It was really bad!!! One owner didn't pay the plumber for the new batrooms and, after several months, he used a chain saw to "repossess" all of the walls and pipes. Only 6 or 7 plumbing licenses in that county and NO ONE would come to turn the water off. Months later the debt was paid and then paid again to have the bathrooms (WC) reinstalled. Louis