Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What is this film measuring machine?

This is topic What is this film measuring machine? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010107

Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 09-27-2009, 08:53 AM:

Hi Guys

When I was visiting a new complex my employer just opened this week I came across this film measuring machine. I can't find out any details about it on the net so I thought I'd ask the experts.

It seems like a very nice little unit, runs very smooth and looks well built.

Cheers

Michael

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-27-2009, 08:56 AM:

Moviola, by J&R.

Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 09-27-2009, 09:00 AM:

Well Tim, that makes it easy. Thanks for that.

Are they actually any good?

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-27-2009, 09:08 AM:

The best. The multiple-sprocket versions of that (2-6 gang) are called synchronizers, and they were used in the production of most all movies for decades; every editor had one. Until editing went digital.

I have a 4-gang version myself. [Smile]

Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 09-27-2009, 09:21 AM:

Ok, cool. So I should just go and steal it from them now? I'll have to work out where they got it from...

Thanks for the info. [Smile]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-27-2009, 09:56 AM:

Most of the 4 gang units found out here in Mid-America were originally Cinerama units: 3 picture reels and one sound reel. I have one, too. Most were converted to "single wheel" units as an aid to finding frame lines. These have a side made of plywood. Louis

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 09-27-2009, 12:20 PM:

Louis,
Were the Cinerama synchronizers you are familiar with set up for the six-perf frames? When we were doing the restoration of HOW THE WEST WAS WON, the negative cutter who was converting the film setup from autoselect to a/b rolls was able to find one of these that had come from the ex MGM studio. They seem to be extremely rare.
In our lab work today, the four-rank synchronizers are important when working with original 3-strip Technicolor negatives (YCM+sound).

DM

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 09-27-2009, 01:21 PM:

Actually, it looks exactly like the Hollywood brand frame/footage counter. The numbers on the sprocket wheel are frames, the counter is feet.

I have seen a number of items where the "Moviola" and the "Hollywood" versions are identical other than the name plate. I don't know if one company made for the other, or they both sourced from the same manufacturer.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-27-2009, 02:06 PM:

I had two in my multiplex, we used them to cut in frame trailers and adv. Very heavy, very well made, very useful. I think they bought them from Jack Roe UK.
I saw some other frame counter elsewhere, not as heavy as them, almost useless because they tend to follow the print [Smile]

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 09-27-2009, 06:58 PM:

This editorial type of footage counter is much better than what I've seen for normal cinema use. The sprocket is conveniently 1 foot (16 frames) in circumference, and hollowed out so you can see the film over a lightbox. Works smoothly and reliably even at fast speeds. Reading the feet and frames separately can be a bit tricky at first (just before the sprocket turns 16 frames, the counter already indicates 1 foot).

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 09-27-2009, 11:10 PM:

Michael, which company are you with? I always assumed you must have worked at the Busselton hard-top or drive-in [Confused]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 09-28-2009, 12:49 AM:

Formally speaking, this is a one-gang sync block.

As noted above, it's the best kind of footage counter to have. They show up on EBay periodically, though generally 2-to-4 gang versions. Not quite as compact as the 1-gang, but perfectly servicable. Get one.

--jhawk

Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 09-28-2009, 09:27 AM:

quote:
Michael, which company are you with? I always assumed you must have worked at the Busselton hard-top or drive-in [Confused]

Damien, I'm with Ace. The cinema down here has been an Ace site for the last 4 or so years since we renovated. We're now a three screen.

Thanks everyone for the information, I will be on the lookout for one.

Posted by Matt Skilton (Member # 5288) on 09-28-2009, 09:49 AM:

That does look like one mean footage counter. Hmmmm, when I'm a manager I know what my first purchase order will be [Wink]

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-01-2009, 05:39 PM:

This essential equipment continues to be manufactured / supplied as new.

Ask your local service engineer / tech for details [beer]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-01-2009, 05:55 PM:

While true, the new price for a 1-gang 35mm sync block is about $900; a used multi-gang sync block is under $100.

--jhawk

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-03-2009, 03:26 PM:

One doesn't have to buy strictly a One-Gang 35mm Sync Block though? A standard Frame / Footage Counter should be adequate for normal projection room applications, and is far more affordable.

Granted, the sync block has some nice additional features as Christopher pointed out, but appears to be unaffordable. It seems to be a chicken-and-egg situation - the high price deters buyers, so there is less demand for the product, maintaining the high price.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-03-2009, 08:23 PM:

The point is they are cheaply available on the used market.

What do you mean by a "standard Frame / Footage Counter"? A Neumade film measuring machine? Those things are junk.

To my mind a sync block is a standard frame/footage counter.

--jhawk

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 10-03-2009, 08:29 PM:

You could try Edge (Atlab) thats where I got mine from 6 yrs ago or any of the cinema suppliers eg Cinetech or Associated Sound Newcastle, but they can be expensive.

Posted by Michael Hossen (Member # 4274) on 10-04-2009, 07:22 AM:

quote: Stephen Jones
You could try Edge (Atlab) thats where I got mine from 6 yrs ago or any of the cinema suppliers eg Cinetech or Associated Sound Newcastle, but they can be expensive.

Thanks Steve. I might give EDGE a call during the week.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 10-04-2009, 10:17 AM:

Pfft, it will always be Atlab to me.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-04-2009, 01:33 PM:

I dunno John...I have a bunch o people that like the Neumade machine. It certainly does not have the feel of a sync block but they often do the job just fine and can be easily mounted in the film path of many rewinders, including the Kelmar with the proper lean-back.

Steve

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 10-05-2009, 09:40 AM:

I have a two-gang version of one of these devices that
I bought at an editing house that was getting out of the
film business and going totally digital a few years ago.

They work great, are fairly indestructable and the
large diameter sprocket wheels are easy on film.

I recently discovered another use for it too- -
Last week I was asked to measure a large auditorium
for an upcoming event. The longest tape measure I had
at the theater only measured out to 12.5ft.

So, I took a scrap trailer and stretched the film out
across the auditorium and marked the length & width
of the room with some masking tape on the film.

I then took the hunk-o-film up to the booth and ran
it through the synchronizer/footage counter to get
the measurements I needed. This was probably a lot
easier & quicker than trying to take multiple
measurements with the small tape measure I had,
which would have required making more than half
a dozen measurements to get the figures I needed.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-05-2009, 11:02 PM:

LOL! Good one, Jim! I'll have to remember that. [Big Grin]

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 10-07-2009, 01:53 AM:

quote:
Pfft, it will always be Atlab to me.

or "Greater Union Entertainment Technology" - (G.U.E.T); or Greater Union Village Technology" (G.U.V.T.); or "Greater Union Theatre Supplies" (G.U.T.S - really - it was on the t-shirts); or "National Theatre Supplies" or "Gaumont-Kalee Theatre Supplies" or "Australasian Films Cinemachinery Division" Anybody out there know any of their other incarnations? [Wink]

Phil.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 10-07-2009, 02:25 AM:

Phillip.

V.T.S (Village Theatre Supplies) - and those great carbon slide projectors.

Re the footage counter- the Aussie version manufactured here which looks identical in every sense was the Easton, made by the same company that built those hand rewinders that are everywhere in Oz. Built like the proverbial tank.

Cheers
Ian

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 10-07-2009, 03:10 AM:

G'day Ian!

And beautiful things they were! Sad them young fellers will never know the pleasure of screening slides on a bi-unial!

Also re Synchronisers. Willam Kerr, and Bruce McNaughton at Aranda made some single gang counters out of multi-gang synchronisers for bio box use. They may still have some. The Eastons are almost identical to the Moviola equipment, although I think the Moviola ones are better made.