Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 35mm rollers for ORC platter

This is topic 35mm rollers for ORC platter in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Brian Jupp (Member # 2801) on 10-13-2009, 03:23 AM:

We have a number of rollers that need to be replaced on our ORC platter. We have contacted Strong and they don't produce them any more - they are sending us the few they have remaining in stock. Does anyone know if there is another source for these rollers? We don't need the bearings, as they can be reused from our old rollers. As you can see from the pictures they came as halves. The complete rollers are 2 1/2" in diameter, 1 3/4" wide, and the hole for the bearing is 5/8". Worse case scenario is we get a similar sized roller with the hole in the middle of the bearing that is 1/4" in size to fit over our existing shafts on the platter system. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-13-2009, 03:51 AM:

SPECO rollers will fit on those shafts I do believe.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 10-13-2009, 08:46 AM:

Many years ago I did a complete take up roller conversion of many late 1980s ORC platters (the original rollers were wearing down and scratching film) - it has been so long but I do think the rollers were from SPECO and the included bearings fit the shafts just fine, but we had to get spacers to accomodate the difference in how the bearings were spaced(I think SPECO provided those too).

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 10-13-2009, 09:39 AM:

I want to say that one set of ORCs that our company uses had some Christie rollers installed to replace some bad rollers. It's extremely bizarre to look at a crappy ORC and see blue rollers.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-13-2009, 02:55 PM:

Though rollers are not a problem, it is time to retire anything not supported. Although factory support is ideal; when something is not supported by anyone, it is obsolete.

Ironically, the OLDER ORC platters are supported fairly well by Potts since Potts made them. The newer ones are now obsolete. Louis

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 10-13-2009, 06:29 PM:

"Obsolete" is a needlessly-charged word, Louis.

While scarcity of parts is not ideal, surely you aren't advocating throwing out perfectly-good platters because they have bad rollers that are difficult to source.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-13-2009, 07:17 PM:

Of all the platers we have the least grief comes form the mid adged ORCs the ones with the servopots and a variac in the base

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-13-2009, 11:30 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Ironically, the OLDER ORC platters are supported fairly well by Potts since Potts made them. The newer ones are now obsolete.

Louis, which are the older ones? The brown trees or the "Stupid platter" knockoff with the orange trees?

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 10-14-2009, 12:42 PM:

I'm assuming he means he orange Super Platters. I thought that those came first and then Super Platter split off and made them blue. Am I wrong?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-14-2009, 03:59 PM:

The orange ORC's were really early Potts platters. As such there is a commonality on important parts. (motors, brackets, variacs, feed out plates, takeup rings.) The rollers are not available, but the smaller Potts rollers work just fine. It is probably possible to replace ALL of them.

The later ORC's and all other ORC products are long obsolete and replacemnt should be considered especially with really good used equipment "on-the-street." Louis

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 10-14-2009, 06:11 PM:

What an excellent response, Louis, not only disregarding my retort, but doubling the ante by reiterating the same needlessly charged vocabulary.

Top notch. [Razz]

Way to respond with an intelligent reason as to why ORC platters of the later build are "obsolete" or "inferior. . ."

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 10-14-2009, 08:18 PM:

Newbie picks fight with established and respected member. Wackiness ensues.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 10-14-2009, 09:06 PM:

What exactly makes his statement "charged" yet alone "needlessly so"? In my dictionary, obsolete can simply mean that it is no longer in use or rarely in use (and incidentally, not having available parts would tend to indicate that this had happened).

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-14-2009, 09:42 PM:

Where the hell is Security? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 10-14-2009, 10:11 PM:

"Book him, Danno".

But as an aside, how difficult would it be to retro-fit the ORC's with more modern control gear,rollers &tc assuming that time is more readily available than cash? I am in the position of inheriting the ORC Maxi platters and am considering this approach.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-14-2009, 10:34 PM:

Funny, the brown ORC platters CAN run film reasonably well...if you can find the parts. Those orange ORC platters SUCK!

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 10-15-2009, 09:03 AM:

Even typewriters and horsewhips aren't entirely obsolete. In my humble opinion, using the word here is inappropriate. So, because one would have to improvise a new roller setup, it makes sense to junk the entire platter?

I am arguing this out of principle, not on the merits of the new or old ORC platter systems, but unless one's time is worth $250 an hour, and there are no skilled laborers that can be hired to do the job, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to swap out the rollers, the little plastic wheels that are probably the simplest parts on the projector, than to have to disassemble, scrap, and haul out the old platters in pieces and then haul in new platters, assemble, align, and calibrate them. That's just me though.

As for being a "new-be" I've been projecting and shooting 8- 16- and 35mm film since I was in high-school, so I think that is more important than my tenure here [Wink]

Just curious though, are we talking about the brown or orange ORC platters here? It isn't entirely clear to me.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-15-2009, 10:52 AM:

The servo control was on many orange orc after the potts version was disconinued

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-15-2009, 11:50 AM:

Karl, when parts are no longer available it has been obsoleted by definition (to replace with newer and better). If you can make other rollers work on an old platter, and don't mind running on a hope and a prayer that nothing dies on a weekend that you don't have a replacement for -- knock yourself out, baby.

Now, get those theatres that have a whole complex full of obsoleted equipment (ORC consoles/lamps/automation, Eprad sound come to mind) held together with Band-Aids, and the fun that comes on a Saturday night when something breaks down and the theatre owner leaves you holding the bag. After all, it's "perfectly good" equipment...

No, thanks. [Big Grin]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-15-2009, 02:45 PM:

I respectively disagree overall the ORC platters have been the most reliable of the ones we deal with

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-15-2009, 07:08 PM:

Not at all, Gordon. I understand. [Smile]

Clearview still has a bunch of them, and they do hum right along. I just have had too many instances where something like that is relied on, and when the part goes that can't be replaced... they are down for however long it takes to get a new platter (which, today, is getting to be a very long time). I see it as just delaying the inevitable. [Wink]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-15-2009, 10:13 PM:

We are helping no one by "trying to run the Indy 500 in a Model T." Not the customers, not the owners, not the studios. Louis

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-15-2009, 10:33 PM:

quote: Karl Borowski

As for being a "new-be" I've been projecting and shooting 8- 16- and 35mm film since I was in high-school, so I think that is more important than my tenure here

Sorry, was that an attempt to impress someone?

The point Adam was making is pretty obvious. When you are new to this forum, it's kind of polite to not piss people off until you are known.

Until then though, please be more aware of how arrogant you are coming across.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-15-2009, 10:59 PM:

quote: John Wilson
...it's kind of polite to not piss people off until you are known.

Gosh John, I'm ALWAYS polite. I've been here a long time and "well known" and haven't pissed anyone off yet. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-15-2009, 11:17 PM:

[Smile]

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 10-15-2009, 11:19 PM:

Phil, always polite???? hehe, my ubiquitous friend....(not sure what the fuck that means, so don't get offended)

Posted by Karl Borowski (Member # 5424) on 10-16-2009, 01:51 AM:

That's OK, Richard. At least you have learned how to punctuate a sentence!

Oh. . . wait. Well, at least you kind-of got it right for the first one.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 10-16-2009, 06:28 AM:

.....and what has this got to do with the original posted question? [Confused]

C'mon guys, we're all professionals here.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 10-16-2009, 04:46 PM:

More to do with the orange vs. brown ORC platters (not the Potts/Super Platter type) was there any difference between them other than color? And when they became the Strong Saturn was there any real difference either?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-16-2009, 09:07 PM:

The orange electronic platter was the same as the first generation of the brown ones
THey later replaced the variac with a servopot on a belt and a seperate card for each deck
The logic for switching was done with fridgedoor switch that was pushed in when one move the takeup roller plate up and down the column

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 10-18-2009, 12:30 AM:

Weren't the later model brown tree models equipped with potentiometers in the feed control to regulate speed? I seem to remember refreshing a few of those at one point.

I also recall some sort of linear rheostat device in the tree for take up speed. Another thing I remember is that they had a larger than normal tree, like a triangle with the corners cut off.

Somewhat unrefined platters, but I was impressed with the variable speed control of the feed units.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-18-2009, 12:22 PM:

The last brown ones had a movable plate on the side to select the takeup deck and they used a belt driven servopot in the base of the column to control the takeup speed
both the orange and brown ones with the 3 toggle switchs and the rotary switch were really the same just a colour issue

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 10-18-2009, 02:07 PM:

The brown ones I serviced (and ran) were circa 1989/1990 and had a variac in the bottem connected via linkage to the dancer rollers, takeup selected by where the deck roller was clipped on and 3 feed out control cards inside the tree - the feed plates had a custom Spectrol potentiometer to govern the speed (we bought 50-100 replacements at a time to give us a few years worth of spares for 46 units . . . . I called Spectrol once trying to buy them directly and was told the design was owned by ORC and could only be sourced through them).

Biggest thing I remember is they wrapped film tight enough to move without clamps - using clamps was just insurance against the center ring popping loose or the person moving the print stressing the disk of film the wrong way.

I never saw the ones with the belt driven servopot for takeup - must have been after 1990 and before Strong took over?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-18-2009, 04:15 PM:

Only the last vintage had a pot rather than a variac
Vishey can supply the pots in quantities of 25

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-18-2009, 08:20 PM:

(Vishay purchased Sprague in the "early 1990s".
Vishay Sprague)

--jhawk

Posted by Brian Jupp (Member # 2801) on 10-19-2009, 01:24 PM:

Thanks for the replies. I'll try to get some Speco rollers.

The platters here are neither orange, nor brown. They are burgundy (they match our ORC Optimax II-S consoles) and were installed in 1989. Model number for the platters is MP303E3. I'll attach a picture.

It would be a shame to get rid of these platters just because of the inability to get rollers for them. They work flawlessly and I have not had any issues getting replacement parts ("fridge door switch" for the takeup plate/roller was easily sourced from a local electronics parts store) or getting parts repaired (control card for the MUT). It does help having spare parts - On hand we have a spare board for the MUT, spare belts for the takeup servopots, and a complete spare brain for each platter.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 10-19-2009, 07:27 PM:

That is pretty much the platters I had installed around 89/90, except mine had the variac and linkage instead of the belt for the take up . . . . color looks similar, from the picture I could say brown or burgundy.

Do yours still have the plastic covers on the lights for the middle and lower deck? we replaced ours within the first 3 months with off the shelf covers (with a metal collar and glass - it ended the occasional shattered plastic covers and subsequent shattered lamps from a clumsy operator bumping the ring into the lamps).

If SPECO has not changed their rollers too much you should have no trouble getting them to fit - just get the right spacers to keep them from sliding around too much.

Posted by Brian Jupp (Member # 2801) on 10-21-2009, 02:03 AM:

No, the lights/covers weren't there when I started in 1994. I imagine they didn't last long, just like yours.

Posted by Tony Gallimore (Member # 5358) on 10-21-2009, 11:22 PM:

David,

You said you had replaced the lights on the middle and lower disks with glass covers. Was this the whole light fixture or just diffuser? I have a couple ORC 302 platters... the bulbs with the T-2 base hang down so far that I've even caught my shirt sleeve on them when switching the feed head to another disk. A shorter bulb that didn't hang down so far would be a good improvement or even a new fixture if necessary. Otherwise, I'm VERY satisfied with the ORC's. I like them better than the Superplatters and Strongs I've run in the past. The ORC's just run a lot smoother with their variable speed feed head. I also have two ORC consoles I rebuilt and am still using the original automation, sound and power supplies.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 10-23-2009, 05:11 PM:

Tony - we actually found a replacement cover that fit the original threads. I think we did a clear or yellow smooth lens for the decks and a green faceted one on the tree. I forget where we bought them from, but I know the covers were readily available by themselves without needing to buy a whole new fixture - if memory serves they were very inexpensive (i.e. maybe a dollar or two each).

Posted by Tony Gallimore (Member # 5358) on 10-26-2009, 11:25 PM:

Thanks David,
That's one improvement I would like to make. As long as I can get brushes for the motors and other miscellaneous components that occasionally give up the ghost, I'm going to stick with the ORC's. I'll do a little searching on some of the military surplus sites, etc for the lenses.