Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Simplex xl intermittent repair

This is topic Simplex xl intermittent repair in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010199

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-06-2009, 05:50 PM:

I have a Simplex xl (model pr-1003) that the intermittent went out while previews were playing. No wrap, had oil, just stopped working. It was sounding louder than normal before it happened.

I have what I believe to be above average mechanical skills. How difficult is it to take the intermittent out and back in? Anyone have good instructions on how to take it out?

Or, is it wise just to send the projector off and have a service person remove it and look over the entire projector?

Recommendations for who to send off to service the intermittent? I have used American Cinema Equipment, Tri-State Theater, & Hadden in the past for parts/equipment/supplies, etc.

Posted by Jack Theakston (Member # 4484) on 12-06-2009, 06:17 PM:

Removing the intermittent is simple, but taking it apart is another thing. All of this is described in the manual that I believe is on this site. I wouldn't attempt to try the first time alone. Either send it off to be serviced, or find a tech who can walk you through the whole thing.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-06-2009, 07:35 PM:

Probably the best rebuilder of intermittents in the US - if not the world - is Ed Wyatt at Hadden. The man is phenomenal. He's the son of a watchmaker, and has spent his life doing precision work. Ed runs intermittents in on a sounding board to tune them whisper quiet!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-06-2009, 08:11 PM:

Dick Prather does excellent work

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-06-2009, 08:28 PM:

I've done about 7 of them... piece of cake to do..

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-06-2009, 08:59 PM:

I'd highly reccomend Randy Bowden at American Cinema Equipment. Randy is an excellent rebuilder. I also do them but am way to tied up right now and you need it done right away... I'm not a big fan of repair/exchange system and there are also a few dealers that will also ship you a loaner overnight so you can get right back on screen till yours is rebuilt.

Mark

Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 12-10-2009, 02:16 AM:

Mike, I would be happy to perform the repair for you. If you need assistance with removing it from the projector, just give me a ring and I'll talk you through it. Dick Prather also does good work, in fact he's just down the street from ACE.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-10-2009, 08:45 AM:

quote: Mike Frese
Or, is it wise just to send the projector off and have a service person remove it and look over the entire projector?

What??? No, it is not wise to send the projector to a service person. It is wise to hire a good tech to come onsight and fix the problem.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-10-2009, 08:22 PM:

You are missing the point that he has already swapped out the head, which is something he has a comfort level with. The head is decades old and has never been properly serviced.

Perhaps it is time for its day at the rebuilder (or at least the overhauler). A lot of work can be performed cheaply at the shop, where the same work would exceed the cost of a new projector "on site." Louis

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-11-2009, 10:11 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
You are missing the point that he has already swapped out the head, which is something he has a comfort level with. The head is decades old and has never been properly serviced.

Louis,
No offense, but what point am I missing? He never stated that he swapped out the head and he didn't say it hasn't been properly serviced. He asked about removing the intermittent because it "stopped working" during previews. If he needs instructions on how to remove the intermittent, I seriously doubt that he can swap projector heads. Mike, no offense to you either.

Rick

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-12-2009, 11:55 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
A lot of work can be performed cheaply at the shop, where the same work would exceed the cost of a new projector "on site."

I don't know about your labor rates but ours are the same in shop or in the field. I've overhauled many a Simplex and Century while still mounted in place on the sound head... bearings, gaskets,Intermittent, you name it. There's no reason a projector rebuilt in place in the booth should cost as much as a new one!! Sans new paint any capable tech should be able to do it while in the booth

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-12-2009, 03:54 PM:

Able is no issue.

But if you include travel time, motel, expenses and time you soon reach a number that is obscene. In the shop, I have power equipment and a bottomless pit of the exact right parts. It is impossible to carry the parts needed unless you service projectors which are basically complete. The ones we see were purchased in the 50s or 50s, never maintained, and there are numerous parts missing, castings cracked and have parts that NEVER fail missng or broken. Many are indoor XL's in a drive in with the wrong pump/indicator hardware and the wrong shutter.

The secret to field service is to do a complate job in one pass or to "slap -it-on-the-ass" and run. I will NEVER do the latter no matter what. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-12-2009, 03:58 PM:

I agree with Louis on this one. Our rates are slightly cheaper in the shop, the shop affords a much more conducive work environment. Just about every part or tool needed is also within feet of the work space. Regardless of the job, I can do a more thorough and faster job in the shop under those condition than in the field.

Unfortunately, most of the time, yes field repairs are the norm (you are not going to bring a projector back to the shop just to change a gear).

I see Louis posted right above me...we do have "Field Kits" that have just about every part for a particular projector you could need (gears, bearings, shafts, tension bands...etc)...it is relatively small and complete enough to cover 99% (and maybe more, I can't think the last time I didn't have the part). Even with that, I'll take the shop repair every time.

Steve

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-12-2009, 04:18 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I have power equipment and a bottomless pit of the exact right parts.

Bottomless pit is an understatement! Hadden is like ACRES of machine shop, paint dept., projector remanufacturing dept., parts warehouse, freight/shipping docks, used equipment warehouse, research lab, new equipment manufacturing dept.; automation, film guidance, and sound rack staging, a huge dance floor... you can't see the whole place in a day! [Big Grin]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-12-2009, 06:41 PM:

Inexpensive tours available Louis

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-12-2009, 07:23 PM:

Mike,
Did you get your intermittent repaired?

Rick

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 12-13-2009, 05:35 PM:

Thanks for everyone's help.

Louis, is right in that I swapped the projector head with a spare one.

I have looked at the manual on this website and it looks simple enough to remove. My concern is about putting it back in which I understand can be tricky.

The unit was last serviced by a technician onsite about 3 years ago when we took over the operation of the theater. Two projectors were thoroughing cleaned and inspected. That tech has since basically retired. I have no tech person within 3 hours of me. So Louis is spot on about travel time and costs.

My original question is whether or not is it worth the time/extra cost to have the projector thoroughly inspected to give worry-free (or as close as possible) at the shop. What
are some other trouble spots that may be worth looking at? or is the intermittent pretty much the main area of concern?

Sounds like, the answer to that might be no.

I have not taken the intermittent out yet but plan on to tomorrow or the next day.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-13-2009, 07:33 PM:

quote: Mike Frese
My original question is whether or not is it worth the time/extra cost to have the projector thoroughly inspected to give worry-free (or as close as possible) at the shop. What
are some other trouble spots that may be worth looking at? or is the intermittent pretty much the main area of concern?

quote: Mike Frese
I have what I believe to be above average mechanical skills. How difficult is it to take the intermittent out and back in? Anyone have good instructions on how to take it out?

If I can read correctly, Your first post, this topic starter, you only asked how difficult it was to remove and reinstall an intermittent.

quote: Mike Frese
The unit was last serviced by a technician onsite about 3 years ago when we took over the operation

Ha,then its your own damn fault [Confused]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-13-2009, 07:44 PM:

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-14-2009, 12:20 PM:

Here's what I do when removing/re-installing an internittent assembly so that I don't have to re-time the shutter (most of the time) I will move the motor by hand until the machine is halfway through its pull down before I remove the assy. After this I WILL NOT touch the projector at all until I re-install an intermittent so that the shutter does not get moved. When I re install the intermittent I will rotate it's shaft until it is halfway through it's pulldown before I put it back in the machine. 9 times out of 10 you will have the same timing as before. Every once in a while you will have to go back and re-time the shutter. It is important though to always double check that there is no ghosting before walking away from the job!