Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Laser Alignment Kits

This is topic Laser Alignment Kits in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-07-2009, 08:02 PM:

Besides the coveted Align-O-Tron, what is another good laser alignment kit? I'm looking to do a complete alignment from lens back to reflector on Super Highlight consoles (X60 light bench) with Christie P35C heads.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-08-2009, 07:40 AM:

Kinoton makes a better alignment tool... a bit more expensive but not that bad. I have both the alignotron and the Kinoton and the alignotron's laser diode does not point straight. There should have been facilities inside it to align the diode itself. Its ok for short distance alignment though. Its fairly easy to make one... You can also just make one out of a laser pointer... have any machine shop make you a 70.6mm O.D. alumnium bushing with the proper inner bore to accomodate the laser pointer. If you need 4" then just throw the 70.6mm adaptor with laser pointer bushing into a 4" adaptor.

Mark

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-23-2009, 08:05 PM:

Just received my Kinoton kit, plugged it in and...nothing... The power supply is putting out a little over 5v. I don't see an on/off switch on the unit. Did I receive a defective unit?

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 12-23-2009, 08:55 PM:

Jeremy
How much did the kit cost?

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-23-2009, 09:12 PM:

Yes, and what exactly comes in the kit, if you please?

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
You can also just make one out of a laser pointer.

Just curious... how can you be sure the laser pointer points straight?

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-23-2009, 09:15 PM:

$615 if I remember the quote correctly as I haven't yet received the invoice.

This should be a visible laser correct? Also, anyone have English instructions. My German isn't so good; well it might be had I taken it. That's what I get for taking French instead.

Edit for Tim:

It comes with the laser device to mount in the lens barrel much like the Align-O-Tron and power supply with an adapter (from Radio Shack) to plug in to US 110v outlet.

I'd post pics except someone ran off with my USB cord for my camera. [Mad]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-23-2009, 10:21 PM:

The late Bill Sanders of Christie carried one for years, but stopped. Would work perfectly IF all reflectors were symetrical. Since they are not, it was only good enough to get you close.

A crutch. Perfect alignment can be done many ways. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2009, 10:27 PM:

The Kinoton tool is incandescent. Works good though. I have one and use it from time to time. You could have had a machine shop make one with a laser for alot less $$...

quote: Tim Reed
Just curious... how can you be sure the laser pointer points straight?

Easy! Just place it in accurate V-Blocks project the dot say 10 feet away and rotate it. The dot should stay in one place. If not(as with the align-O-Tron)the dot will make it's own circle.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Perfect alignment can be done many ways.

You can try the many ways but perfect alignment is impossible to achieve unless the reflector itself is perfectly concentric!! Never is...

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-23-2009, 10:44 PM:

Just so I'm not thinking incorrectly, I should just be able to plug this in and have some type of visible light emitting from it?

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-24-2009, 02:34 AM:

If it's the same as mine, then you should get a very visible green light emitted from the LED.

Perhaps the PSU polarity is wrong?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2009, 06:37 AM:

Hmmm my "light projector" uses an incandescent lamp and yes, it is quite visible.

As for alignment, I use both the laser and the light projector...it is really the fastest and most accurate method.

Use the laser to get the center of the reflector dead center to the aperture and lens. Then use the light projector to aim the reflector EXACTLY back to the film and lens...you just can't beat it.

As for concentric...glass reflectors will do much better but every once in a while, you'll get a metal one that will surprise you...then again every once in a while you'll get a metal reflector that practically puts out a spirograph image!

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-24-2009, 10:27 AM:

I've always wanted a "light projector". I saw a video of a guy using one once, and thought 'THAT'S the way to align a lamp!'

How much does it cost, Steve?

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-24-2009, 11:00 AM:

A few years ago, I made a trip to Strong to check on 5 Megasystem projectors before they were shipped to China. I was doing the install, so I wanted to make sure the shit was right before they were shipped. One of the guys at the plant was "aligning" a lamphouse in one of them, so I had to watch! When he was done moving the lamp table, yoke, collet around...he got his laser dead on. I rotated the lens holder and it moved the light(laser) around by a few inches. I just told him to get them close, I always redo them in the field anyway. Shipping always messes them up and I check them during the install

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2009, 12:02 PM:

I'd have to get a current price in 2010.

Steve

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-24-2009, 07:08 PM:

quote: Pete Naples
Perhaps the PSU polarity is wrong?

That's certainly a possibility. Anybody know what the polarity should be? I believe the center is positive on the PS plug. I see no markings on the laser itself. I don't want to do any disassemblely of the laser or modification to the PS to find out and void any warranty or ability to be able to return it.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-25-2009, 03:13 AM:

Steve, all the Kinoton light projectors we've bought for fiml and DLP systems in the last 5 years or so have been green LED, and bright it is too!

Jeremy I'd go and check mine, but it's in the back of the car under many feet of snow.

Merry Christmas one and all [beer]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2009, 09:19 AM:

I can believe that...ours is older than 5 years...I want to say it is from around 2000. I hope the LED puts as clear an image as the light bulb does.

Steve

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-25-2009, 10:26 AM:

Could someone explain what a "light projector" is and how it is used? Maybe a diagram or photo if not a few paragraphs?

The laser alignment tools seem easy to understand...

--jhawk

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-25-2009, 01:34 PM:

quote: Pete Naples
Jeremy I'd go and check mine, but it's in the back of the car under many feet of snow.

I can relate to that. We received 14"+ with drifts as high as 5-6ft. My mustang got buried at work in a 3ft drift... I got all my employees out of there in time before the heaviest snow fall came in. Guess the captain always goes down with the ship...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2009, 02:59 PM:

The Kinoton light projector "projects" a circular area of light onto the reflector (it mounts where the lens goes...just like a laser). The face of the light projector is flat. The light that comes back forms interference rings on the face of the projector. When the rings are circular and centered on the face, you have everything aligned.

As you may know, I can not post the manual for it or I would. Next time I have it out, I'll try and snap a photo of it.

Steve

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-26-2009, 05:50 PM:

I happened to take a snapshot of the light projector in action the other day with my cell phone. The image quality is pretty basic, but it still gives you a rough idea what it looks like:

What you see here is the light projector on the right, inserted in the lens collar, here of a DP70. On the side of the light projector, there are markings which show you how far to insert it into the lens collar for the two different types of Kinoton reflectors (300mm and 340mm) and which help you verify the correct working distance. This only works with Kinoton lamphouses, with other lamphouses you have to move the light projector forward and backward to find a good spot in which you can see the concentric circles. In some positions further away from the relfector, the image typically collapses slowly and the edges start forming an X mark on the front of the light projector.

The green LED is indeed very bright, so the image here is washed out by it, but in real life, the rings can be seen very clearly. You can also typically see a rectangular shape which is the light coming through the aperture. If the reflector is correctly adjusted, you can see all this centered around the opening in the middle of the front of the light projector which is where the light from the LED comes out of.

Once this is done, there is another useful application for it with lamphouses in which the xenon lamp sits on an adjustable anode support post, e.g. Strong lamphouses. A very common mistake is that this post is not properly adjusted vertically, and sometimes, you also have to turn them very slightly to achieve the best horizontal alignment. Often, people just use the bulb focus control plate in the back of these lamphouses to make up for that, and then everything gets progressively more out of alignment. The bulb focus control plate should be more or less perfectly centered and only used for minor finetuning adjustments. If you look at a lamphouse which is set up so that the plate is not close to its centered position, you immediately know there are other problems.
When you put in the xenon lamp with the light projector still in the lens holder, you can actually see a small bright ball of green light floating in the lamp. This is the light from the green LED which is concentrated by the reflector in its focal point where in operation, the plasma ball at the tip of the cathode will be. So if you adjust the front bulb support and the lamp focus so that the green ball of light is sitting completely centered on the tip of the the cathode, then you have almost perfect lamp alignment. Then you just back the lamp up a bit because during operation, the plasma ball where most of the light comes from is burning right in front of the tip.

If you then remove the light projector, install the lens and switch on the lamphouse, you immediately have nearly perfect lamphouse alignment, with typically only very minor finetuning necessary at that point.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-27-2009, 02:42 AM:

Couldn't have put it better myself, cheers Michael!

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 12-29-2009, 12:29 AM:

Is the Align-O-Tron still sold? Source?