Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: difference between 2446 and 2450 Jbl driver on 2360a horn

This is topic difference between 2446 and 2450 Jbl driver on 2360a horn in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Nico Treba (Member # 5541) on 12-20-2009, 05:33 PM:

Hello,

I got two 2360a horn with Mc Cauley 9620 driver (same as Sony SUP T-14). But I try to find just one, and it's impossible to find.

Well, I want to change my theater system with Jbl driver because we can find diaphram replacement, drivers easily.

I will buy one 2360b horn for center channel. I notice jbl use 2446. I knwo some people use 2450.

I would like to know if the 2450 is better with 2360 horn (4675c speaker system) than 2446h ?

If Brad Miller watch my post >> in your theater, did you try to use 2450 instead of your 2446 ?

Which version 8 or 16 ohm ?

Thank You
Nico
France

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-20-2009, 06:09 PM:

Steve will be much more helpful. One of the difference is the weight. 2450 has a neodimium magnet, 2446 has a ferrite one. 10 Kilos difference between them.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-20-2009, 06:43 PM:

The motor/diaphragm are identical between the 2450 and 2446. As has been pointed out, the chief difference is the magnet used. I have used both and find no significant improvement in the 2450, acoustically.

It is nice having a light weight driver...especially when rigging but that is often not the case in the theatre environment.

If you look at the spec sheets for both, you may find a very negligable improvement in the 2450 in the extreme high end (it has been a while since I looked at them)...however, your theatre environment and screen are going to negate and real measurable improvement.

Steve

Posted by Nico Treba (Member # 5541) on 12-21-2009, 11:43 AM:

Hello Steve,

thank you for your answer.

Just the magnet on the 2450 is different. For theater, the weight in my case, is not a problem. The price differential is not a problem for me.

I thought there was more difference between 2446 and 2450.
On the spec, the two got the coherent wave phase plug.
A friend say me becareful for the first 2446. Because there is no coherent wave phase plug, only on the last 2446.

Regards
Nico

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2009, 12:42 AM:

No, all 2446 have the same phase plug.

If budget allows, sure, give the 2450s a try. Again, on the spec sheet they are a bit smoother in the 10K region on a 2380 horn (the spec sheet doesn't show the 2360, which is now strictly a "Cinema" horn). The 2450 is just not where I would be spending the extra money in hopes of huge improvements...maybe small incremental ones. They are incredibly light...only 1/3 the weight of the 2446. But again, the diaphragms are the same...just the magnet assembly is different (and the exterior metal work).

Steve

Posted by Nico Treba (Member # 5541) on 12-22-2009, 07:28 AM:

Hello Steve,

can you advise me on oder good 2" driver ? Jbl, Ev, B&c, Beyma etc...

No Tad driver, to expensive.

I search Sony SUP T14 or Mc Cauley 9620. I don't find in France just on.
The Sony sup T14 was on the Sony copy of the 4645c Jbl, SRP-SC1A.
This driver can go up to 23khz, easily.
Mc Cauley stop production since 10 years.

I don't uderstand why theater change for medium size, the 4645c to 5000 series. I don't like the sound of the 5000 series. The 3" driver go too low, agressive in the medium.
I never heard screen array 3732, 4732.

Regards
Nico

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2009, 05:44 PM:

My experience is mainly with the JBL EV and Altec...coming not only from installation but service (we are a service center for Altec and JBL and used to be for EV).

As for sound quality...it is too subjective for one person's opinion on the matter. The JBL 5000 series has please a great many people and is currently in use at the Motion Picture Academy in Hollywood were films are critically viewed/listened to.

That doesn't mean you have to like them though. I'm not the biggest fan of the 4632 but there are those that are. The 4622, also a screen array has done well for me (now the 4722). I like the 5000 series JBL. I also still like the 4675. Then again, I like the Altec A4 and A5 a lot. I've also been quite impressed with the QSC line of speakers...very smooth sounding and pretty flat response out of the box.

I don't think there is THE good speaker out there...there are many and there are also some real crap too. Let your ears be the judge.

Steve

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 12-26-2009, 06:24 PM:

Hey Merry Christmas n a Wicked new year everybody, interesting to read comments about the speakers or the BEST speaker, I was considering replacing my EV’s with something new,I have and old Altec A5 but the horn has done the driver inand having problems getting a part.
I am not really happy with the centre channel speaker and feel it needs replacing sooner rather than later but was not too sure on what to buy, I was looking at the Krix or possibly the QSC’s but am a bit hesitant in what to spend my dosh on, Steve you say you’ve been impressed with the QSC range of speakers so what would you recommend for the centre channel?
I run QSC USA 900 amps and the cinema size is 60ft x 30ft any suggestions anyone
Tanks in advance
Frank
[Confused]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-26-2009, 06:45 PM:

First off, diaphragms for Altecs are definitely available new and in production. So are the medium format Manaray horns (MR594 and MR564).

As for new speakers...most anything would be better than the EV in "my" opinion because I don't like their sound...but that is me, not a statement of fact. As for QSCs...the SC-423H is a good bang for the buck speaker (double -15" 3-way). It can be bi or tri-amped.

Steve

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 12-27-2009, 03:14 AM:

Frank, what sort of acoutic treatment does your cinema have? Love the photos of your Drive In [Smile]

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 12-27-2009, 06:02 PM:

Hi Cameron when we got the cinema built they used a acoustic block along the sides and we have a large curtain across the back wall, now that we have been able to get some movies earlier I have been looking at ways of improving the acoustics inside the cinema starting with replacing the 16 year old EV’s and possibly a new 2nd hand processor, but what to buy with limited funds and which way to go is the problem at the moment

Glad you like my drive-in
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1213582402&ref=profile#/pages/Ayr-Australia/Starrdust-Drive-In-Movies/136098875621?ref=ts

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 12-29-2009, 05:11 PM:

Frank, I doubt that a 16 year old EV is the weakest link. I would suggest some black tissuefaced fiberglass ductliner backstage and if the speakers are not close to the back wall add some 3-4ft wide & very solid wings. For less than $1000 you might find a dramatic improvement!
Do you have SR? Dolby or Panastereo are the best. High quality surround speakers also are worth spending the money on, plus having them angled down etc.

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 12-30-2009, 02:15 AM:

Cameron, The screen is about one meter from the brick wall and I have the speakers as close as possible to the screen, what do you mean add some 3-4ft wide & very solid wings?
I am considering purchasing Krix KSX25 Surrounds and on the lookout for a 2nd hand CP65 or Ultra stereo processor, I have not been spending huge amounts on the cinema in the past simply because I have always have to wait at least 2 months to get any films, I am the 2nd run place in town and have to wait till they run in town, but that seems to be changing that’s why I want to upgrade the gear and looking for the right info

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 12-30-2009, 05:20 PM:

Hi Frank. The ultimate cinema speaker installation is the baffle wall, it is a basis of the THX system. These tend to be a heavy duty triple layered gyprock walls on a heavy metal frame, the same size as the screen. With the speaker boxes mounted flush into the wall. The front of the wall is covered with a fiberglass material (black tissue faced) to dampen the early reflections.

As the speaker is essentially a piston designed to create waves, having the air around the speaker controlled like that allows the formation of a more accurite bass sound wave, which simply sound more realisic and natural than the sound from a traditional speaker box.

Now for a fraction of the cost of a THX wall, one can add simple timber wings to the side of the speaker box and recreate many of the advantages of the wall. The main rule is that the wings are are very solid and crossbraced. The ideal building material for speaker boxes and wings is concrete!!!! In the real world they are usually constructed with 18mm timber cross braced on the back with say multiple 2"x4" creating a frame.

The fiberglass backstage quietens down early reflections creating clearer dialogue, increases seperation between channels and allows a deeper cleaner sub bass.

Personally having worked with Ultra Stereo before, I would recommend either Dolby or Panastereo as the best sounding processors avalable. Both with SR are magic. Ultra is ok as a fallback from digital but not as a main course. Analogue sound through a red light soundhead can be extremly impressive.

Krix make some truely great surround speakers but there budget duel cone surround speakers are lacking in my opinion. If it has a tweeter it's great! (some even feature danish made scanspeak revelators tweeters found in only the MOST expensive audiophile home speaker systems) if no tweeter I personally would get something else [Wink]

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 01-02-2010, 08:53 PM:

Any ideas on where the best place would be to get 807-8a Altec Diaphragms or complete driver

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 01-02-2010, 09:14 PM:

great plains audio Make the genuine replacement parts with Altecs original equipment (I believe) in the USA.

etone in Sydney would be able to get you what you need. I'm not sure if it would be an aftermarket part but at least they would tell you. They take pride and are very good in what they do.

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 01-06-2010, 06:43 PM:

Thank you for the info Cameron, I have emailed both these business last Sunday and got no reply, so have tried phoning today stil no answer so they might be having a xtended Chrissie new year holiday break.
Thanks again for your help
Frankie

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-06-2010, 08:01 PM:

And we stock the Altec diaphragms (and are a dealer for Great Plains).

Steve

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 01-09-2010, 01:40 PM:

Speaking of TAD drivers,

anyone install them in a cinema application?

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 01-10-2010, 06:39 PM:

Anybody think a pair JBL JRX125 would be suitable as a centre channel

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-10-2010, 07:02 PM:

They're not exactly meant for cinema installation, I believe that with Sound Reinforcement portable speakers priorities are different: weight, strenght over all conditions. Quality probably is not at the first place, even though they're maybe great speakers.

Many installers in my country install PA speakers in cinemas. DAS, Behringer and stuff like that. They're much cheaper of course and I'm sure that a Behringer speaker cannot reach a JBL or a QSC in quality.
But I wonder what is the difference between a JBL PA system and a JBL Cinema system speaking about sound quality. Is there really a difference?

Posted by Frank Jerkic (Member # 2446) on 01-10-2010, 08:49 PM:

Interesting question if there is a difference between PA and cinema speakers from Marco I was told some years back ‘use EV SH1502ER or S200 and you can’t go wrong’ or JBL’s / Altecs
Never gave it much thought till now

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 01-10-2010, 09:44 PM:

Your EV would sound noticably better. Low crossover point at around 500-800 hz is what gives cinema speakers better speech intelligibility (and lower power handling) than p.a speakers.
Your EV or Altec speaker are some of the best ever built for the purpose. Sure some of us prefere the sound of JBL over a EV but its pretty subtle to most of the population. Cheap acoustic work would make any speaker sound better. Altec speakers were designed to use wings, factory made etc. 16 years is really not old for cinema speaker, Altecs tend to need some new fiberglass insulation inside the box every 30 years plus or so.