Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Kinoton Halogen Red Light Conversion

This is topic Kinoton Halogen Red Light Conversion in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010248

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 01-02-2010, 03:38 PM:

I am looking at replacing Jaxlights currently installed in Kinoton/Philips DP75 soundheads in a Drive-In and came across these on the Kinoton website.

I understand that these are by no means an ideal solution to cyan analogue tracks, but funds are very limited and I just want to see the back end of the Jax'. The power supply here is very dirty, and the reduction in the Jax output and necessary preamps is causing more noise than I would like.

The intention is to retrofit the analogue Kinton conversion kits when funds are available. I have no intention of going to DD sound repro as most of the benefits of digital audio would be lost in this drive-in situation.

So, questions are -:

Is it worth just sticking with the Jax till funds are released for red led Kinoton conversions? This may be a season or 2 down the track.

If anyone has given these things a try, how do they sound and what kind of output can I expect compared to the Jax?

If these are not an option, how would say, lasers go regarding the crappy power supply here?

Many thanks for any and all opinions.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-02-2010, 03:42 PM:

I've never used the halogens....I hate the lasers though.

I'm curious too on the halogens. I think BACP has a DP75 kit (alternative option). Personally, I love the Kinoton RSSD but that is not the low-cost solution at all.

Steve

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-02-2010, 04:04 PM:

Ian; is the cost that much less than the BACP? If not, go there. The U.S. Dollar is cheap for those of you who pay in Pounds, so now might be the time.

I am certain you will be happy with the BACP. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-02-2010, 04:14 PM:

Watch out Louis...Aussies hate it when you mistake their accent as British!...even worse for Kiwis!

That said, the Aussie Dollar is still about as strong as it gets to the US dollar. Unfortunately, Australia just upped their VAT, as I hear.

Steve

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-02-2010, 09:26 PM:

My mistake, sorry guys. Louis

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 01-03-2010, 01:35 AM:

Thanks everyone.

I'll suss out the BACP alternative option and see what transpires.

Louis.

Thats ok. For revenge we will just send more Baz Luhrmann films over and make you watch them. [evil]

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-03-2010, 06:50 AM:

That Kinoton halogen lamp kit is strange....they just add some red filter in front of it....is it here anyone who did use it? Strange they didn't come up with some laser for old systems. I neither do like laser, specially when is placed on old optics.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 01-03-2010, 05:00 PM:

Out of interest, why don't many tech's here like the lasers? Is it to do with setup, diode life, sound quality or are there other reasons?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-03-2010, 05:20 PM:

tje big issue is the eveness of illumination

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-03-2010, 05:22 PM:

And impossible azimuth (the laser introduces a time element). Look at one on a scope...they are not very good. Also, I've had worse results for consistent level and they they are more expensive to change.

Steve

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 01-03-2010, 05:24 PM:

Personally I liked the sound of the laser on a DP75 conversion we had at the Valhalla, we also had the solar cell replaced etc. The standard silver based soundtracks sounded much better than with white light. Unfortunatly the cinema closed before the cyan prints arrived so I can not really comment on real world results.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 01-04-2010, 03:22 AM:

I only disliked the lasers on Phillips/Kinoton machines, it is difficult to achieve good alignment because you can't get at the mirror hat to make adjustments in real time, so many installers don't bother trying. I use the past tense because Walter Voight who manufactured the ACL units sadly passed away last year.

On Westrex/Century, Kalee and everything else I ever fitted them to, you could get access to the laser and the hat to make fine adjustments. One caveat is that the exciter mount must be firm. ie remove the rubbers/springs on the westrex/century type mounts. The other crucial thing is the state of the optics. This is where the combined optics/laser units score big time.

We did a lot of experimental work with the ACL type laser before we got it right. The illumination and phase issues Gordon and Steve describe are really one and the same thing, you are trying to put a slit shaped beam of light through a slit, so if the two are not in perfect alignment you get problems.
You can achieve excellent phase and slit illumination with patience, good optics, good exciter mounting and if you're lucky you're not working on a Kinoton/Phillips.

Nowadays I'd go with the Kinoton reverse scan kit if money is no object (we've fitted a number of them, they are excellent), or the BACP if money is tighter. The BACP performs superbly, but it's a little more involved to fit than the Kinoton & you are using what might be an ancient drum, bearings and lay-on roller.

We've never used the halogen unit either, so I can't comment. It's not something that Kinoton sales people make a big noise about.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 01-04-2010, 04:29 AM:

Get the BACP unit and save yourself and the client the hastle. Better quality, better sound and happy client. You get what you pay for.
Demetris

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 01-04-2010, 05:18 PM:

Thanks Pete for the usual lucid assessment. You should do more writing. You're very good at it.

I only make a retrofit analog reader for Kinoton for budget reasons and also it's my policy not to make a dual unit where the original manufacturer has gone through the trouble to make their own in-house version.