Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Masking Motors Recommendations

This is topic Masking Motors Recommendations in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 02-02-2010, 10:55 AM:

Does anybody have any recommendations for masking motors?

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 02-02-2010, 11:11 AM:

talk to Bobby Franklin

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-02-2010, 01:36 PM:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no!

I have a couple of complexes with Franklin Design masking motors and they suck!!! The damned circuit boards in them have a ridiculous force-delay timer built into them, which gets in the way of operation.

That isn't the worst part though. After some time goes by, the godamned things start randomly closing and opening on their own, right in the middle of the movie!

We have had so many problems with them when the third location's motors were delivered and installed and they started spazzing out, we forced the front end company to remove them and replace them with MDI motors, at their expense.

I am STILL dealing with problems at the two complexes of Franklin shit motors every week.

Franklin motors would get a solid F rating if I was to review them. Stay away from them at all costs. If you want a good reliable motor, buy an MDI.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 02-02-2010, 03:15 PM:

I have a 10 plex installed with the Franklin motors - so far no issues after 9 months. But I will make a point of watching them for the above mentioned odd problems and if any pop up I will post back here.

Thanks for mentioning your issues - fuel for a future conversation if we start having issues

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-02-2010, 03:20 PM:

MDI also makes one similar to the Franklin motor... I don't know which one is better than the other but there are a number of both types in this area and there has only ever been a problem with one of them t install.

Mulone also makes them... I believe out of garage door openers... Don't know if it comes with the remote or not...

Mark

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 02-02-2010, 03:34 PM:

Damn Brad.... Hit a Nerve did I?

Bobby's one of the best screen guys there are. Between him and MDI, I wouldn't know who to recommend.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-02-2010, 04:44 PM:

Y'all are nuts.. ADC (Automatic Devices Company) makes the best/most reliable masking motors I have found so far. [Big Grin]

The Logi-stop model allows up to 20(!) preset stops, a great thing for all those using D-Crapema and the multiple versions of formats.

Posted by Jonathan Althaus (Member # 5042) on 02-02-2010, 04:54 PM:

We use ADC ones here at a 15-screener. In the 5.5 years I've been here, we've only had one problem, and that was some idiotic booth monkey telling it to close the masking over and over again, after it was already closed. Most of our motors look original, I'll have to see if I can find a date on one of them.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 02-02-2010, 05:06 PM:

When I was at the Crossroads 16 in OKC we had several ADC motors burn up. ADC eventually sent out all new motors and they arrived just before I left Regal.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-02-2010, 05:18 PM:

Jeremy, define burned up, was it the actual motor that fried or was it a control issue?

ANY masking motor can/will burn up if it was not sized correctly by the original installer. Regal wasn't known to use the best installers sometimes.

I have had my ADC Logi-stop actually pull the masking track off the ceiling at UCI without damaging the motor at all. (this was caused by people leaving tables in the path of the masking on the stage).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-02-2010, 05:38 PM:

Mark, the MDI motor is the original. Franklin's motor is the cheap knockoff, and you get what you pay for.

I recommend the MDI motors because they have never failed me, the price is right and they are a simple and reliable performer.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 02-02-2010, 05:46 PM:

The Grand-Poo-BAH is right on target... I always installed MDI and have never had any problem.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-02-2010, 06:08 PM:

The ADC is a more solid machine than MDI, for sure. The logistop does have its own quirk. It accurately records where you set your stops but it has no anticipator so it does not stop until it hits your stop point. The problem is that there is a finite coast down time so it misses. Try hitting the same stop button over an over again and you will see it moves a little this way, then a little that way...always just barely overshooting.

What they need to do is figure their coast down time and build that into its "logic" so that it costs down to the right point and if you are within a certain range, not hunt around.

MDI got the control thing right in that it slowly ramps up and ramps down. It only has 10-stops...which is plenty for most applications but woefully inadequate for fancy cinemas like the AFI/Silver...where you have to have multitudes of film formats, video formats, computer formats...10 just does not cut it.

The MDI also suffers from a woefully inadequate chain path. The MDI should have idler sprockets to force the chain to wrap the drive sprocket. in fact, they should have a spring tensioned idler to deal with cord slack as the system moves (all systems have elasticity to them or they will pull themselves apart.

So MDI gets a near miss and you do need to size the motor right. ADC also gets a near miss. Both of them also need to work on their "remote controls" MDI's need a wide box despite being on a single-gang (aka handy box) wall plate or you will not get your wires in.

Steve

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 02-02-2010, 06:39 PM:

Hey Tony,

The motors burned up. The controllers worked fine. If I recall correctly ADC sent out a rep to assess the problem. I never heard what they determined was the cause of problem with the motors.

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 02-03-2010, 09:34 AM:

Thank You everyone. This information will be very helpful.

Chase

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-03-2010, 06:07 PM:

My only experience is with ADC and they have worked fine for over 25yrs -- solid and never even had the limit micros wear shift or fail.

Posted by Kyle Butler (Member # 5601) on 02-03-2010, 08:51 PM:

All of ours are ADC's and the problems have been few to none.
( 5 years in operation )

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-03-2010, 10:59 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
The logistop does have its own quirk. It accurately records where you set your stops but it has no anticipator so it does not stop until it hits your stop point. The problem is that there is a finite coast down time so it misses. Try hitting the same stop button over an over again and you will see it moves a little this way, then a little that way...always just barely overshooting.

What they need to do is figure their coast down time and build that into its "logic" so that it costs down to the right point and if you are within a certain range, not hunt around.

I have not encountered this "coast down" in ANY of the Logi-stops in the rooms I have installed/serviced. Sounds like there may be inertia issues with the mechanical rigging. All the ones I have dealt with index to the exact same stops repeatably, at UC Irvine I have not had to reset the stops in over 12 years.

Hitting the same button over and over will cause the masking to "bump" a tiny amount each time, and that will throw off the positioning, but to reset that simply go full open or full close and I have found it to return to exactly the original programmed position.

However, there is one major thing with Logi-stops that is very important..when setting the stops, the FIRST stop you set MUST be set from the forward direction of the motor, so that it is assigned a "positive" number on the encoder. If you don't do this the unit WILL lose positional accuracy. It is explained in the manual for the motors.

EDIT: On page 18 of the manual, there is mention of the use of the open and close buttons while in "SET" mode to assign a numeric COAST value..the purpose of and range allowed is not explained in the manual. But if need be, a call to ADC's tech support will answer that in detail, I have found their support to be excellent.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-04-2010, 08:41 AM:

Tony says:

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
I have not encountered this "coast down" in ANY of the Logi-stops in the rooms I have installed/serviced.

And then Tony says:

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Hitting the same button over and over will cause the masking to "bump" a tiny amount each time, and that will throw off the positioning, but to reset that simply go full open or full close and I have found it to return to exactly the original programmed position.

Well yeah...that IS the coast down. The motor stops at the set point but the motor does indeed coast and overshoot every time. It isn't by a lot.

If you open you logistop next time...set a stop, look at the number. Then open/close or do what ever...see if it stops right at that number or a number a bit near. Remember you need to set a new stop to a new number.

Steve