Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sound leaking from behind screen

This is topic Sound leaking from behind screen in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010336

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 12:23 PM:

I touched on this before, but I have a slightly different situation now. The theater I work at has apartments above it. The new tenant that moved in above theater two is constantly complaining about the sound coming through. The theater had work done a few years ago to try and soundproof. Behind the screen was not touched and I think that's where a lot of it is coming from. The only way to get back there is to pull the screen down. It's a very small area. Should I just frame out the walls and ceiling and add tons of insulation?

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 02-19-2010, 12:30 PM:

Sound Baffle makes a lot of difference. Also don't laugh but it would be wise to sit the subwoofers and speakers on tennis balls used as insulators.
Demetris

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 01:19 PM:

Sub has been shut off for now.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2010, 02:27 PM:

Sadly, when your theatre building was built, it was prob long before the invention of stereo sound and using subwoofers.

Along with power from the amplifier to speaker being less than 10 watts and also only using one speaker.

Plus, no "explosive" movies were made back then.

Might have to dbl insulate the ceiling with sheetrock then 2ft of insulation, then sheetrock over that.

Then you can turn the subwoofer back on.

-Monte

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 02-19-2010, 02:36 PM:

The landlord should have included a disclaimer in the lease about the theatre noise.

Tell the whiny tenant to fuck off or move.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 02:51 PM:

The whiny tenant is Patricia Clarkson. Nobody ever complained like this before her. She has cursed the staff out a number of times already and threatened lawsuits. My response was "you shouldn't have moved on top of a movie theater". Anyway, I figure building a frame around the walls behind the screen should lessen it. What type of insulation is best? It is not only the sub bleeding through. Also, this building is an apartment building. The theater occupies the first floor.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 02-19-2010, 03:06 PM:

Have no idea who Patricia Clarkson is or if she is famous or whatever- that really shouldn't be a factor in dealing with this situation anyway.

I fully agree with Phil's advice. If you spend up big trying to appease this person, then expect to make a rod for your back because whiney tenants will always remain whiney tenants and if they perceive a victory for themselves then you have set a precedent.

Besides, there is something called "caveat emptor"...it means buyer beware and if she is dopey enough to take on an apartment next to a cinema then stiff cheddar - time to move.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 03:12 PM:

If you knew who she is, you would understand. I totally agree that it's tough shit on her. If the owner of the theater felt the same way, then it wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, he doesn't. That being said, we are trying to find the best way to do this.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-19-2010, 03:44 PM:

Well, I don't think you tell her the fuck off, however satisfying that might feel [Smile]

and it's good to spend at least a little time on the problem. Especially if she gets the law involved, you can show you didn't ignore her. I'm guessing the subs are most, if not all of the issue since you mention they were shut off. Where is her apartment in relation to the theater? Near the screen where the shaking speaker cabinet itself is causing the noise, or elsewhere - such that the sound pressure only is the problem. What is actually heard in the apartment; for example if it's a loose length of duct work pipe,etc., maybe it can be bolted down better. You can try the THX suggested Mason Super W 30 durometer pads under the speakers to start, ductliner elsewhere.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-19-2010, 03:59 PM:

In a legal sense, the theatre was there before her. . . just like neighbors of airports.

I think that any money spent to satisfy her should be shared with her or her landlord. This keeps her from starting a never-ending system of complaints and establishes a policy of shared responsibility.

I agree that the loudest location is behind the screen and that a sound baffle wall with the speakers closely mounted through it is a really good start. You may also move the subs to a location froward of the screen in the corner between the screen wall and the floor. You will get better propogation to the audience and may well be able to reduce the overall level which will help backstage. Louis

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 02-19-2010, 04:13 PM:

So I guess pest extermination isn't an option then? [evil]

Practically speaking, it would be advantageous to gain access to the affected apartment and work backwards- that is, to go over the place and carefully note and feel where the intrusions are coming from. It may well be air duct or support beam transmission in which case you know where to start your efforts. Floor transmission has been addressed previously with tennis balls or spring mounts for rectifiers, subs &tc. Quite often, just feeling the walls, ceiling and floor can identify trouble spots.

Whatever happens, a word to the body corporate might be in order just so you have your view put forth and noted.

The threat of legal action may well blow up in this persons face as the court will certainly take into consideration where the apartment is located and other buisness/buildings in close proximity.

As long as you aren't breaching tenancy rules and have taken appropriate actions, then you should be safe from any threatened legal action.

Best of luck.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 05:29 PM:

The sub is not the main issue. It has been off for a long time now and she is still screaming. Her apartment runs the length of the auditorium. She says she can hear the loud scenes, especially music. It's loudest in her bedroom which is over the screen. I agree that we will never satisfy her. She is a friggin nut job. Just look in the news at the tantrums she has had. Until the owner sees this, we have to try something.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-19-2010, 05:33 PM:

In my opinion, sound is like water or heat. You do the full job or it's almost useless.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 06:08 PM:

Um.......OK

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 02-19-2010, 06:22 PM:

quote: Richard May
If you knew who she is, you would understand.

This Patricia Clarkson?

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 02-19-2010, 06:25 PM:

Ok, The main issue to find out is what is the actual problem. There are a variety of different types of sound leakage and different causes.

Is it shake?
Is it audible bass?
Is it midrange?
Is it full range?

Is the building full concrete construction?

The worst case of sound leakage I ever found was caused by a small DRILLED hole in the backstage wall caused by an intercom installation. It cost $5 to fix with a tube of silicone sealant.

Another common cause is that speaker boxs vibrate, these vibrations are transfered into the walls and then can be reproduced through thin materials, ie air con ducting, plaster walls or windows. Think of two tin cans on a string with the role of the string being played by the wall.

The only perfect solution is to build a free floating room within the room, starting with a floating floor and were no parts of the inside walls or frames touch the outer walls. Think double glassing windows, think expensive.

The main aim is that when the soundwaves are transfered into vibrations when they hit the wall, they then transfere back to sound waves in the air between the walls, they are now so weak they will not make it through the next wall. The air gap is very important.

So when you do go backstage, do the cheap things first, check for cracks and gaps in the backstage walls/ roof and place rubber mats under the speakers and sub woofers and see what happens. Adding fiberglass on the back wall if there isn't any will make your theater sound MUCH better but possably wont effect the leakage.

Anyway has switching off the sub fixed the problem at all?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2010, 06:25 PM:

quote: Richard May
She has cursed the staff out a number of times

..get her for trespassing then on your property for she has no right to do this...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-19-2010, 06:44 PM:

The solution here is to kick her out. Sorry lady, but you're asking for something impossible to resolve.

Or you could handle it like I would. I would setup an automated system to power on the system and have a pre-recorded B A N G to go off about 3 times a night at random times. Literally, push your system as loud as you can using every channel for about 2 seconds, and also preferably in the neighboring two theaters as well. When she complains, just tell her "lady that is impossible because the entire staff was GONE at these times of the night and all of the systems shut off". She will move out on her own soon thereafter.

If you don't like that solution, then I think we need to bring in a pro to figure out how to get her to shut up or leave. Joe???

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 02-19-2010, 06:47 PM:

Yes Jeremy, that's her. Switching off the sub hasn't helped that much. It sounds like it's more of a muffled full range sound, if that makes any sense. I think building a wall and ceiling inside the existing one will help a lot. My main concern is what type of insulation to use.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-19-2010, 08:31 PM:

Does seem odd that an actress is bugged by playback of her trade??

Again, she should help pay for any work done. . . it is only right. The previous tenant(s) did not have this trouble. Louis

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 02-19-2010, 09:15 PM:

quote: Richard May
I think building a wall and ceiling inside the existing one will help a lot. My main concern is what type of insulation to use.

What materials are used in the buildings construction? is iyt a mix of concrete, brick and drywall?

Ok its a full range muffled sound, If there is any treble at all it is a physical hole or crack that the sound will be travelling through.

A muffled full range sound with no treble implies to me that the sound is travelling through vibrations through the walls and being reproduced by materials inside the unit.

Now if you spend lots of money (plus close the screen while they work)on a 3 layered soundproof drywall and ceiling, the best insulation is the air gap, so make sure that the new wall and its supports, does not in anyway touch the old wall and ceiling.

If you build this wall perfectly and the trouble is caused by transfere of vibration of the speakers directly into the floor first then through the walls, there will be absolutely no improvement in leakage problem.

As I said before, start with the cheap options first, look for cracks and make sure you use rubber mats (or even tennis balls somehow?) to isolate the vibrations from the speaker boxes into the floors or screen frame first.

As for insulation (3.5 kilograms per square meter is a good start), place it on the inside the cinema side of the wall so that your audience will get the THX like sounding results. ie fiberglass, multi layer wall, air gap then existing walls.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2010, 10:55 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Does seem odd that an actress is bugged by playback of her trade??

Being a professional actress she knows or should know that there are loud sounds in movie theaters. It is part and parcel of the movie business ever since Al Jolson appeared on screen. Living directly next door to a movie theater she should EXPECT to hear loud sounds. If the movie theater was there before she moved in to the apartment she must have had knowledge of what her neighbor's business was. She has no grounds to complain and she certainly does not have the right to cuss at theater employees.

I live right next to an airport. Literally.

My house is less than 300 yards from the runway. You can sit at my dining room table, look out the window and watch jets take off while you eat dinner.

The airport was there before we moved in. We knew about it when we bought the house. We have limited room to complain about airplane noise unless it is an extraordinary circumstance. In fact, if I didn't think airplanes were cool I wouldn't have moved in here at all!

If Patricia Clarkson, who should know about movie theaters, moves into an apartment next door to an existing movie theater she should know what she is likely to hear. If she doesn't like that she should not have moved in.

Her trying to cuss out theater employees is about as sensible as if I tried to cuss out the air traffic controllers! [Wink]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-20-2010, 12:25 AM:

Celebrities are definitely a spoiled bunch: want it all for nothing.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-20-2010, 01:40 PM:

I've landed my Cessna 219 at that airport. Louis

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-20-2010, 01:45 PM:

ERI ?? Cool! [Smile]

You could taxi over and park in my driveway next time. I'm sure the neighbors won't mind! [Big Grin]

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 03-05-2010, 11:43 AM:

Are we talking about the theatres at North Shore Towers?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-05-2010, 12:14 PM:

She moved ON TOP OF A FREAKIN THEATRE!

Brad has the right idea -- convince the bitch that she's crazy. [thumbsup]

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 03-05-2010, 01:45 PM:

The theater owner hired a sound engineer to check it out. What he found was the lower frequencies coming through. He gave us some tips on lowering the noise. Some of which is what I suggested....building another wall and ceiling behind the screen, raising the stage speakers to get them off the floor like some here have said. We will do what we can but she will never be happy. We found out a couple of other things too. One good, one bad. The bad thing is that NYC changed the way they handle sound complaints. She no longer has to prove that the sound is over a certain level. If she complains, the police will come and check it out and write a ticket. It doesn't matter that the theater was always here or thatshe knew she was moving on top of it or any of that. The good thing is that the engineer noted that there is no carpeting in her apartment (which is required by the lease). The engineer said that putting a good carpet with good soundproofing padding will eliminate 50% of the problem.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-05-2010, 02:24 PM:

Show one of her previous films to her. Play it in mono and turn it down so low that you have to sit in the front row to hear it. Then politely ask her if thats how she wants you to show her next fucking film.

Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 03-05-2010, 04:18 PM:

Low frequencies are always a bitch to block.

Too bad this stuff is not readily commercially available.

http://link.aip.org/link/?APPLAB/96/041906/1

quote:
THE rumbling bass from the party animals next door need no longer keep you awake at night. Cheap and effective soundproofing can be yours in the shape of novel tiles made from latex and a few plastic buttons.

Low-frequency sounds, especially, seem to seep through most domestic walls. That's because of their long wavelength, says Zhiyu Yang at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology in Kowloon. Bass sounds at 100 hertz have a wavelength of over 3 metres in air, "and several times longer in solids", he says.

To block out all sound, buildings would need walls several metres thick. Now Yang and his team have developed soundproof panels made of latex and plastic buttons, that will do the job.

These noise-cancelling panels consist of a latex rubber membrane stretched over a 3-millimetre-thick rigid plastic grid of 1-centimetre-wide squares. In the middle of each square is a small, weighted, plastic button.

When sound waves hit the panel, the membrane and weighted buttons resonate at difference frequencies. "The inner part of the membrane vibrates in opposite phase to the outer region," says Yang. That means the sound waves cancel each other out and no sound gets through.

Each weighted membrane only cancels out sound waves within a small band of frequencies. But changing the weight of the buttons alters the operational frequency, says Yang. By stacking five membranes together, each tuned to a specific band, you can create a soundproof panel that works in the range from 70 to 550 hertz.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-06-2010, 12:46 AM:

That would only be effective for airborne sound. A goodly portion of the sound, especially bass frequencies, is transmitted by conduction -- this solid (let's say a wall) touches that solid (let's say the beam it's attached to) and excites it, then the beam touches another solid (let's say the adjacent wall) and so on. There is a path for the sound energy to travel that stopping only the air transmission will not affect. This is why recording studios are built as boxes within boxes and float the inner box on single points that rest on springs. It's not easy to really isolate sound and what's not easy is expensive.

Besides, on the one hand your system is TRYING to produce the proper sound level for the entire frequence bandwidth and a goodly amount of money has been spent to make sure the lower frequencies are robust enough to meet a reference standard, so on the other hand the owner is trying to undue the entire system to accomodate one lunatic; it's absurd.

This this woman is basically saying screw the operation, screw the patrons, screw everyone except her.

I'd find out what the law says exactly. What is the penalty for repetitive tickets. I say, play it louder than usual, let the cops come each and every time and give the owner a ticket -- what are the tickets for a noise complaint -- $100? I would pay it every time and chalk it up as the cost of doing business like the hot dog street vendors bet on the cops checking their licenses only a limited time through the course of the month and they just pay the fine and return. Hookers do the same thing.

If every other night you play 30 seconds of, say, the EARTHQUAKE rumble and the next night 30 seconds of the gun battle in the last reel of AVATAR, what is she going to do? Call the cops every night? When they come, IF they come....dead silence. It will be over. No ticket. I say just keep it up until she gets tired and just gives up and realizes the noise during the day is worth putting up with if it stops the noise that mysteriously wakes her up every night. Or she moves that'll work. Or of course my favorite...she goes CRAZY. It's easy to send these high-strung loons to the mad house; they are half-way there to start with.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-06-2010, 08:49 PM:

I like your style!! Louis

Posted by Brendan Penny (Member # 5041) on 03-07-2010, 04:45 AM:

Not really related to the topic as I think we all agree the only solution is move!!

But out of curiosity, what type of sound insulation are people using these days on new builds?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-07-2010, 09:08 PM:

quote: Phil Hill
Tell the whiny tenant to fuck off or move.

Phil, you are my hero. [Wink]

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-08-2010, 01:04 PM:

> This this woman is basically saying screw the operation, screw the patrons, screw everyone except her.

No Frank, she is saying keep your noise pollution out of my home, and she is right. Nobody should have to listen to a businesses noise inside their home, whether it be a bar/theatre/nightclub. I also believe that is the law in New York City. If the theatre can not contain it's noise, then the theatre should move to an all commercial building.

I have worked in and around movie theatres my entire adult life, and if I were looking for an apartment, it would not have occurred to me that movie sound could leak into surrounding spaces. Either this venue is very old and dates to mono sound with no deep base, or the venue was poorly designed and/or constructed. In either case, it is the theatres responsibility, not the tenants.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 03-09-2010, 08:21 PM:

This theater has been there for over 40 years. In that time, there have been no complaints. We have obtained a copy of the law on this situation. It states that during the hours of 10PM and 6 AM, noise level more than 10DB above ambient noise is illegal. We only have to worry about the 2 hours from 10PM till midnight. She can can go screw herself during the day now. Also, the sound engineer measured 7DB above and that was with the fader at 9. Also remember that she has no carpeting down, which is required by the lease. We can now say "go fuck yourself" if we wanted to. The theater owner won't do that though. He is trying to take steps to lower the noise. As far as what was said about it being the theaters responsibility to control it and basically saying she is the victim here. If you look at an apartment directly above a four screen theater and you assume that NOTHING is going to come through, than you're an IDIOT.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-09-2010, 08:38 PM:

Which she blatantly is.

AND..she can't act. [Razz]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-10-2010, 05:29 AM:

Ahh Mitchell....you are not an apartment dweller. All apartment dewllers know that there is NO way you can have the luxury of a unit that doesn't have at least some amount of noise leak from units above, below and around you. It's just a fact of life. And unless this woman viewed the apartment in that small window in the morning hours or after midnight, she knew how much noise leak she was going to have to live with.

I am an apartment dweller and you just have to put up with some noise leak. Lord knows the people who live in apartments adjacent to mine live with some noise from my system. But even if you buy a house, unless it's in the woods or the desert, or on a deserted island, there is always the possibility of noise polution. My aunt lives a half a block from the F Train (for you non-New Yorkers, it's the elevated section of the subway system in Brooklyn....we still call it the subway). Every time we visited, you would hear the screeching and rumble of the train every 15 minutes. During the summer when you had to keep the windows open, you actually had to stop talking to wait until the train passed - a good 60 seconds. My aunt & uncle certainly knew that fact when they bought the house -- you can't miss an elevated train next to your house. What was my aunt to do after she bought the house -- call the cops on the MTA....tell them to stop the train noise?

What did this diva think she was going to move into....an anechoic chamber? There's a THEATRE below your apartment unit, lady; wake up and smell the popcorn....and listen to the Sensurround!

Obviously she's a typical divia (translate, spoiled brat) who thinks the world revolves around her. We've all delt with them in this business. Well, maybe a director has to put up with her crap because he's got a half finished movie that millions are riding on, but she's on the wrong end of the industry's food chain; she's now dealing with the exhibitor where the "diva" title won't even get her a free popcorn; he doesn't have to put up with any of her sheet. So echoing Richard -- she's an idiot.

BTW, the owner seems to be going more than half way to try to accomdate her, asking about putting in insulation and such. Yet she's not putting in carpet or getting one of those little machines that makes noise-masking sound. Or hey, how bout this --stuffing her ears with EAR PLUGS?

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 03-10-2010, 06:45 AM:

...and her mouth with orthodontic plaster.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-10-2010, 06:49 PM:

quote: Richard May
Also remember that she has no carpeting down, which is required by the lease.

OK this one needs more details, has she got an unfinished concrete floor? or is it a new timber type flooring?

quote: Richard May
Also, the sound engineer measured 7DB above and that was with the fader at 9.

This I don't follow, was it pink noise or a movie soundtrack? If its a movie soundtrack due to the typical dynamic range this figure will vary due to the individual soundtrack played and the way it was mixed. ie Transformers would leek a lot more than a typical arthouse film.

Was the sub still switched off?

quote: Richard May
noise level more than 10DB above ambient noise is illegal. We only have to worry about the 2 hours from 10PM till midnight.

Yes but this is quite a worry as the ambient noise levels are generally dramatically lower in the late evenings .

quote: Richard May
This theater has been there for over 40 years. In that time, there have been no complaints.

Ok so your theater was designed for mono playback then, when did you put in the dolby digital or sr in that screen?

However this does imply that it is probably something that she has done to the apartment, so the answer to question one is of interest to me!

To be perfectly honest the easiest and possibly cheapest way of soundproofing could possibly be in and involve her apartment only

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 03-10-2010, 09:31 PM:

The building is a very old wood structure building. I don't think there is any concrete in the floors on any level. She has hardwood flooring down. She ripped out the REQUIRED carpeting upon moving in. The 7DB above level was with the sub on during movie playback. It flucuated up to 7DB above while he was up there. We are an arthouse so rarely do we get any "loud" movies. In NYC noise levels are loud 24 hours but during those 2 hours we can just lower the fader. Stereo was put in in 1990. Now we have 4 CP 65's and no digital. Nobody ever complained before because the sound levels really are not that bad in that apartment. Also, they had carpeting down so it was even less. Another reason is because the people that lived there before knew they were living ON TOP OF A FREAKIN MOVIE THEATER!!!! The way I see it now is that we were borderline on the 7DB above level and that was with the fader at a level we would never run it at. Combine that with the FACT that she has no carpeting, which she is required to have. Throw in for the fun of it that she is fucking crazy. She will never be happy no matter what we do. That being said, at least we are trying to help her out.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-10-2010, 09:51 PM:

So did she put in new flooring or did she simply sand and polish the existing flooring?

The reason I ask is because if its new flooring it could be making things worse, ie amplifying the tin can on a string effect. Ironically if she did go this way for a few dollars more she could have got a floating floor which would have made it much much quieter!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-10-2010, 11:05 PM:

You should fuck with her brain.

Have a "Patricia Clarkson Film Festival" and get her to come down and sign autographs but have a dozen or so shills come in and say, "Patricia Clarkson? Who the fuck is that?"

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-18-2010, 10:52 AM:

So here is the update to all this. The sound engineer installed a compressor/limiter into the system. It compresses the signals on the input side and limits the signals on the output side. We also disconnected the sub for good. He said we don't really need it. [Confused]

I flattened out all of the cat 64 cards so he could EQ from his new unit. He did the EQ and then targeted the "problem" frequencies. He then set the compression level and limiting level. We set final SPL's and ran The Hurt Locker. Obviously, the dialouge scenes sounded fine, unless there was yelling, but the explosions sounded like shit. All the bass is gone and the range has been completely compressed. Luckily, we are an arthouse and rarely run movies like The Hurt Locker. After we were done, he said that he actually improved the sound in the theater. Let's see.....removed sub.....compressed the range....limited the peaks.......removed the problem frequencies......yep sounds like an improvement to me........I guess the bitch wins. I'll bet you she STILL complains [fu]

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-18-2010, 12:01 PM:

um... was this sound engineer a cinema engineer? Cinema sound is a very specific and unique animal. It is nothing like live or PA sound. Adding compressors and limiters to a cinema system is a very bad idea, as is disconnecting your sub. How did he EQ this room? Did he usa an RTA with pink noise and eq to the "x" curve?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-18-2010, 12:08 PM:

He did use pink noise and an RTA. He did EQ the stage and surround speakers with the correct curve. I know it's a bad idea to remove the sub.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 04-18-2010, 04:11 PM:

It sounds like this guy just used basic "feedback reduction" techniques, which as stated before, works well for live and stage sound but will suck the life out of cinema soundtracks producing flat and lifeless sound in the auditorium.

Overall, not an ideal solution from your perspective.

Do you run digital soundtracks?

If so, it may be an idea to just re eq the system and default to analogue.
This will pull back the dynamic range and "possibly" satisfy the witch who's complaining.
As you mention, art-house films don't rely on explosive audio- but to eq the system as you have described really has little place in a quality cinema.

Best of luck

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-18-2010, 04:46 PM:

We don't have digital sound in any screen here. He had gone up to her apartment with an analyser while we had a movie running and checked which frequencies were bleeding through. Then after the EQ, he lowered those frequencies a bit more.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-18-2010, 05:06 PM:

I feel very sorry for you, Richard...and even sorrier for your patrons who now must endure (perhaps) compressed sound in a cinema.

Yuk.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 04-18-2010, 05:22 PM:

Did she put in carpet?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-18-2010, 05:55 PM:

No, which I said should have been the first thing to do. The owner is scared of her because of who she is.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 04-18-2010, 06:21 PM:

I really think he needs to get a pair and take a stand. He could just as easily flip the tables on her by leaking a news report to one or more of the tabloids and shows like TMZ about how difficult she is being and how her complaints are ruining the movie going experience for his patrons.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-18-2010, 06:36 PM:

Anyone could do that. (hint)

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-18-2010, 08:44 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-18-2010, 09:14 PM:

Wow! Talk about damage! I'll bet he even CHARGED for this. . . and at an art house yet. Louis

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-19-2010, 07:37 AM:

I'm with Louis. This is like buying a house near an airport and then complaining about the noise. Assuming that the apartment was not misrepresented as being soundproof, this is her problem and not the theatre's.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-19-2010, 04:05 PM:

Don't be to quick to blame the tech .. he might have been told to; "..make it so she never complaints again.."

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-19-2010, 04:11 PM:

quote: John Walsh
Don't be to quick to blame the tech .. he might have been told to; "..make it so she never complaints again.."

There are other ways to make sure that happens.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-19-2010, 06:42 PM:

IMO The tech should have refered them off to an accoustical engineer to make the neccesary structual and sound proofing modifications to allow proper operation of a cinema sound system without disturbing this lady. Of course if the tech had done that then they wouldn't have been able to sell any equipment or bill any labor. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-19-2010, 07:16 PM:

He actually gave them that option, but the owner wanted the quick fix. Like I said before, I don't think there is any way we could stop all of the leaking. Even if we tried, she would complain about the tiniest noise and the owner doesn't want that. If it were anyone else living up there, there wouldn't be a problem.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-20-2010, 03:34 PM:

Given the lack of leadership, it's probably time to just close up and give her the theatre. Louis

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 04-20-2010, 04:06 PM:

quote: Richard May
If it were anyone else living up there, there wouldn't be a problem.

Why should a movie star get any more consideration than a regular person? Is she in town making a film your boss hopes to get and he's just sucking up, or is he just sucking up?

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-20-2010, 05:16 PM:

quote: Martin McCaffery
Why should a movie star get any more consideration than a regular person?

In NYC, that's the way it is.

I guess that puts that house out of consideration for any studio rental screenings.

Is it the Cobble Hill Cinemas?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-20-2010, 06:24 PM:

Quad cinema.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 04-20-2010, 08:43 PM:

I am still curious as to whether or not she created the problem in the first place. ie did she refloor the room with a new timber type or did she simply removed the carpet, sand and polished the existing floor?

The most professional fix possible would be to install a floating floor in her apartment.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-20-2010, 09:39 PM:

quote: Martin McCaffery
Why should a movie star get any more consideration than a regular person?

If this was Tom Hanks or somebody really famous, I could see all the fuss...but Patricia Clarkson? She's a B-lister at best! Why the hell is the theatre owner going to ALL this effort....is he trying to date her or something?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-21-2010, 08:48 AM:

He is going through all this effort because he is afraid of being sued. Personally, I don't think she has a case, but he wants the complaining to stop. He doesn't want to deal with it anymore. The quickest way to go about it was to install this stupid limiter. Obviously, the better solution would be to get rid of her, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-21-2010, 10:38 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
If this was Tom Hanks or somebody really famous, I could see all the fuss...

Except that Tom Hanks has more class. He wouldn't act like such an asshole.

Besides, if a guy like Hanks did have a problem with a movie theater like this he would visit the theater owner's office and ask if there could be a way that they could "work something out." Even if the phrase "work something out" means that he's going to throw his weight around and try to force you to do something, he would never be seen in a public place cussing and screaming at mere theater employees.

Hanks would behave more like a mafia boss.

Clarkson is behaving more like the crazy, old cat lady who lives down the block.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-21-2010, 12:29 PM:

Hmmm, how about we look at this in a simple perspective of who makes the most money for the owner of the building?

The whack-job B-list "star" renting out a single apartment... [fu]

Or the Cinema who is renting upwards of ten times the square footage and is paying rent accordingly...... [thumbsup]

As the owner of the building wanna guess who I would be evicting as a nuisance in a heartbeat?

Richard, it is long past time that the owner of THE BUILDING be made aware of the situation and if he (or she) has a pair then your problems will be over and you can restore your sound system to a PROPER setup.

If your boss is the owner of the building then I would be looking for a new job if I were you, this is only the beginning of more weakness which will compromise your ability to do YOUR job properly.

Oh yeah, let the bitch try to sue, she'll lose in a heartbeat as any reasonable judge would tell her that A: She KNEW a cinema was there and most importantly, B: She removed the carpeting IN VIOLATION OF HER LEASE (which BTW is enough legal grounds to evict her if she doesn't agree to put it back in the same condition as it was found.)

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-21-2010, 02:04 PM:

quote: Richard May
He is going through all this effort because he is afraid of being sued. Personally, I don't think she has a case, but he wants the complaining to stop.

Her not having a case doesn't stop her from suing. Sadly, it's probably lots cheaper to have a tech tweak the sound than it is to go through litigation.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-21-2010, 02:34 PM:

Chris, I agree with what you're saying, but it has become clear to me that no one seems to want to fight for their rights to conduct business anymore, it's too easy to just roll over and get [sex]

by the crackpots and assholes than to fight for what's right.

I hope that the owner of the building or perhaps code enforcement(?) steps up to the plate and does the right thing.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-21-2010, 04:18 PM:

Chris, that's my whole point. She will sue anyway just to force him to spend money and time fighting it.
Tony, it's not a matter of him not wanting to fight it. He does not want to get into a big dragged out court battle. She has the big bucks to do it, he doesn't.

Posted by Jonathan Bodge (Member # 4072) on 04-21-2010, 05:22 PM:

She has big bucks? I doubt it if she rents an apartment above a movie theatre. She's a washed up has been. Solution. Push the start button. Run up to her apartment, knock on the door, place the dozen roses with the gift wrapped vibrator next to in on the floor. Run away. You'll be surprised what a little vibration can do.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-21-2010, 05:55 PM:

quote: Jonathan Bodge
She has big bucks? I doubt it if she rents an apartment above a movie theatre.

Have you ever rented an apartment in Manhattan? In that area of the city she could be paying on the low end $1500 to $2000 a month. His theatre is close to Union Square and NYU which is alittle pricey. I subleased a loft apartment on the other side of Union Square on 5th Avenue & 19th Street for $2800 a month back in 2001. My apartment in the Theatre District of Times Square is $2150.
She's been making alot of indie films that kind that would play his theatre.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 04-21-2010, 08:53 PM:

quote: Cameron Glendinning
I am still curious as to whether or not she created the problem in the first place. ie did she refloor the room with a new timber type or did she simply removed the carpet, sand and polished the existing floor?

Third time lucky perhaps. The reason I keep asking is that to remove the carpet is going to make it a bit worse but a badly installed new floor would be a disaster! To me a uncarpeted floor is more likely to create the situation where you hear her in the cinema, walking around in her apartment during the quiet scenes.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-21-2010, 09:09 PM:

Either she removed the carpet or the people before her did and never complained. Never noticed hearing her through the ceiling.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 04-23-2010, 12:08 PM:

Its been said before. She KNEW she was moving in above a movie theatre!!!

I had to read the IMDB before I knew who she was, and found that she is in a couple of films that I have seen... and I still cant picture her in these films! Up and coming 'A' list actress? Carpetless? She needs to give up.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-23-2010, 02:28 PM:

She needs to either give up or shut up.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 04-24-2010, 09:41 PM:

Guys she won,

Patricia Clarkson 1 Cinema audience 0

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-24-2010, 10:24 PM:

I haven't been following this thread in awhile, but is there a news article on this?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-25-2010, 05:07 PM:

No. It's been kept in house.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-29-2010, 11:59 AM:

Okay guys. Hang on to your seats for this one....and no, the Candid Camera cameras are not running. According to a very trusted source, she has now contacted the tenants above her and made a request? Anybody??????????????

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-29-2010, 06:50 PM:

What? Is she now bitching about noise coming from the people above her?

That officially makes her a crackpot!
She's going to bitch and scream about every little noise the upstairs neighbors make and, when they finally give in, she'll move on to the neighbors on either side. When she eventually cows them, she'll start in on the people at the other end of the hallway. The next thing you know, she'll be bitching and screaming because she heard a mouse fart six blocks down the street.

Basically, that means there is no such thing as being nice to her. Go ahead and let her scream. You made every good-faith measure to satisfy a reasonable demand. Once she's shown that she's a kook, you're pretty much off the hook.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-29-2010, 06:52 PM:

Yeah but what do you think she asked the upstairs tenants to do?........This is getting kinda fun now....... [Big Grin]

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-06-2010, 07:38 PM:

Guess who was a presenter for an awards show at my theatre tonight?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 05-06-2010, 11:34 PM:

That little *********!!!!

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 05-06-2010, 11:40 PM:

So is she asking them to install carpet before she lays her own? [uhoh]

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 05-06-2010, 11:43 PM:

... or is she going to move up?

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 06-21-2010, 06:37 PM:

For some reason, Patricia Clarkson is on CSPAN right now down in New Orleans interrogating someone in charge at a parish base of operations about the Oil Spill. It appears her mom is a parish council president or something.

Guess this will keep her from complaining about the sound for awhile;>

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-22-2010, 12:25 AM:

That's like saying, "You're under arrest because my father is a cop!"

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-22-2010, 12:29 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
is there a news article on this?

quote: Richard May
No. It's been kept in house.

What...are there no reporters looking for a story that happen by Film-Tech? Come on...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-22-2010, 01:27 AM:

OK Richard, spill the beans.

John, maybe you should tip off the likes of TMZ and Perez Hilton, etc.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-22-2010, 06:23 AM:

I think Perez may have other issues on his mind right now.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 06-22-2010, 07:45 AM:

It's been pretty quiet here with the installation of the compressor/limiter. Of course the sound sucks now but as long as she is happy, I guess that's all that matters. [fu]

Anyway, her new complaint is that she can hear the upstairs tenants walking around in the apartment. To stop this bothersome noise, she has asked them to "please" take their shoes off while in their apartment. I'm not making this shit up.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-22-2010, 05:38 PM:

If I lived upstairs, I'd be signing up for Flamenco lessons!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-22-2010, 06:22 PM:

No...Tap Dancing Flamenco lessons.

Egad...and she was in 'The Untouchables' too. For shame.

Note: The irony of that movie title and the content of this thread has not gone unnoticed by this forum member.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-01-2010, 10:26 AM:

Because we know you are all interested in keeping up to date on Ms Clarkson, the NYT has this glowing article on her today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/movies/01clarkson.html?_r=1&hpw

quote:
Patricia Clarkson, Directors’ Stealth Weapon

Patricia Clarkson, an actress in demand by both mainstream and art-house directors, at Café Loup in the West Village. More Photos »
By MICHELLE ORANGE
Published: July 30, 2010
SINCE her 1998 breakout role as a German actress in druggy decline in “High Art,” Patricia Clarkson has eked out an uncommon niche: she’s a character actress with a name you know.

After an early brush with Hollywood left her cold, Ms. Clarkson found herself at home on the fringes and re-emerged as cinema’s independent woman. A rotation of eclectic, shrewdly chosen roles has resulted in mainstream success, a devout following and an orderly queue of directors running her ragged.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-01-2010, 11:42 AM:

She was fine last Monday when she was in our office for NBR screening of "Cairo Time".