Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: subwoofer output on CP50/cat 560

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Posted by Jeff Else (Member # 4063) on 02-22-2010, 10:48 PM:

where does the subwoofer output to with a cat 560 installed? are backpane modifications necessary?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-22-2010, 11:26 PM:

For these purposes, it's the same as a Cat. 160. I don't remember the pinout, but it should be in the later version of the CP50 block diagram.

You could also look in the DA20 manual under connecting a DA20 to a CP200 section and look for the optical sub out pin.

The Cat. 560 was not documented for use in the CP50 as there were simply too many upgrades and mods required to make it worthwhile, as the CP50 design was 16 years old by the time SR.D was introduced.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2010, 08:42 AM:

The subwoofer output is the same for the Cat 560 as for the Cat 160. There is a link on the Cat 560 to select CP50 or CP200 (P6). The output on the CP50 is "B11" on the edge connector which turns into the "C" output on the "output to surround adapter."

Be forewarned if you plan to use the Cat 560 to pick up Right surrounds and EQ for Left-Surrounds...it WILL invert phase on the Left surrounds at its input.

If you find an early DA10 manual...there are actually instructions for the DA10/CP50 combination as well as a reference to a board that Dolby never produced, the Cat 442, I believe, for connecting the DA10 to the CP50. Sam would know if that board ever got out of the "Artist's conception" stage. We made a board (506T) to allow the CP50 work with the digitals (all three and in any combination).

Steve

Steve

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-23-2010, 09:39 AM:

Steve has a better recall of this than I do. I don't believe the board was ever built as when we added it up, SR cards,
3 Cat. No. 64's, 517, better power supply, etc.,
the upgrades far exceeded the value of the CP50.

If all is needed is optical subwoofer output, I have several 160's in my old stock and would be happy to sell one cheap, or trade, whatever.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2010, 01:09 PM:

I never really agreed with Dolby's "too much" position on the CP50. You didn't need to really change the Cat 64s or possibly the Cat 114 (if you had a "C" you were okay). It really came down to the Cat 560 and Cat 517...and even the Cat 517 could be skipped...if you knew what you were doing.

When we developed the 506T...it started as just a means to hook up a DA10 or DTS-6...but it evolved into a multiformat selector and also the ability to upgrade as much or as little as one wanted. We even put in the ability to sense if a Cat 280 was installed and adjust the gain to match digital, accordingly. I still have (mostly) unstuffed boards from the last run.

Steve

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-23-2010, 02:09 PM:

..if you knew what you were doing is the operative phrase.

Now we are going to renew an argument we started over 17 years ago? Memory loss is a good thing in some cases.

You never give up Mr. Steve. Mostly I like it.

35mm Magnetic is on its way back accompanying film 3D I hear.
[Smile]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-23-2010, 04:27 PM:

Just remember to send a cue to the Smellovision module! Louis

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 02-23-2010, 04:34 PM:

How cheap would you sell a 160 card for? I need one since I have a CP 50 that is missing the cat 82 link card.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2010, 05:40 PM:

One of the problems, early on, was that folks were already aghast at the price of the DA10/Cat699 when this all started. We got into the mobile digital rack business to get sales. Hence, we had to figure out how to make most of the installed base that we serviced work with mobile digital racks.

The "506T" was the beginning of that...the first one was quick and dirty, but did the job.:

I don't know if we have the "mule" anymore for this one...we still have one or two of the raw boards...I believe only one customer got it and it was a condition of sale. This is a case where they already had the SR cards for their CP50s and wanted to float a DA10/20 between three theatres and one theatre had a CP55 and two had CP50s.

That board evolved into 12 revisions (though not all were ever made or even prototyped).

The final result was this one:

Which is still mounted to our "mule" CP50. It allowed you to chose what updates you had in your CP50 (it would work with the Cat 160/560, 517,117, Cat280s or SRA5...you merely programmed it via links for what you had and it routed the rest. One could have both DTS and Dolby digital hooked up at the same time too. It also gave a pink-noise input (lower-left) so you could EQ all 6-channels without removing any cards from the CP50. We also added a "hearing impaired" output that was pre-fader, pre-eq with a center weighting. I want to say the interest kind of fell away as this one came out but we sold a few.

As Sam noted, there were upgrades to be done for the CP50...BUT if you had a late model CP50 (Cat 64Bs, Cat 114C)...then with the Cat 517/560 upgrade, you actually had a better sounding unit than a CP55 or CP65 with better VCAs for a fraction of the cost.

Steve

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-23-2010, 05:41 PM:

You want a 110L if you just want a link card to pass the signal thru. Those are cheaper than a 160.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-23-2010, 07:17 PM:

Cat. 64B's came out after the CP50 ceased production so they needed to be obtained somewhere.

I'm sure I'm wrong and Steve will point it out if I am.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-23-2010, 08:29 PM:

I have the questionable distinction of having bought the very last (?) CP-50 ever made. Will check next time I'm in the theatre. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2010, 09:07 PM:

I can GUARANTEE that the CP50 was issued with Cat 64Bs prior to discontinuation (sorry Sam). I want to say that the last year of CP50s had 64Bs. The first CP50s with Cat 64Bs we took delivery of where in the fall of 1984. The CP55 came out in 1985 and always had Cat 64Bs. We got one of the first CP55s too...with the odd Cat 243 that had one move a wire around to set the wake up format...not the nice and neat wire of later years where it was all in a row...no you had to move this blue wire to the resistor you wanted!

Steve

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 02-24-2010, 11:09 PM:

Sam,

I would prefer to upgrade my CP 50 to the 160 card.

Love to also get at least 1 of those boards from Steve. I would care less if is was a naked board as long I could Identify the parts that went on it.
Would also like to get another Cat 113C card for the other CP 50 so they could both interface with a pulse style automation.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-25-2010, 12:58 AM:

William,

I'm sure we are breaking some sort of rule here but contact me at my

address so we can discuss. I do have 113C's as well.

Congrats on keeping your CP50 tip top.