Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Belden Wire and does it make a difference

This is topic Belden Wire and does it make a difference in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 03-01-2010, 01:16 PM:

Just wondering, does Beldin Wire or it's equivalents make that much of a difference, when compaired to the kind of stuff you get at, lets say Radio Shack? What is the difference and what is the "model" number of wire that you use for cell hookup?

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 03-01-2010, 01:36 PM:

Bernie, Belden (or Canare) cables DO make a big difference. They are of much higher quality and will outlast cheaper cables. They are also easier to strip and terminate than the cheap brands, so the labor savings can be huge on some installs.

For cell hookup, one run of Belden 8723 (2 shielded pair) or 2 runs of 8451/9451 will do the trick.

8451 and 9451 are electrically the same, just different jacket materials.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-01-2010, 01:46 PM:

9451 is my stock wire it strips and terminates nicely
9452 is my favorite for reel noisey enviroments and mag systems

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 03-01-2010, 02:04 PM:

quote: Gordon McLeod
9452 is my favorite for reel noisey enviroments and mag systems

I'm assuming when you say noisey, is another way of saying alot of electrical interference? Does it have to do with the sheild?

Bernie

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-01-2010, 05:12 PM:

the 9452 has a carbon tape wound with the foil and it is good at rejecting interference

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-01-2010, 07:06 PM:

From what I have seen, Radio Shack wire is crap. Stiff, hard to work with crap. It is stiff because they like to use just a few large size wire strands, instead of more smaller strands, I guess it's cheeper to make it that way. They don't like to "waste" money on shields. I remember buying some "mike cable" form RS (some years ago) and it had almost NO shielding. The stuff picked up interference like there was no shielding at all. I don't buy RS wire any more. With Belden you know what you are getting is consistently good.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-01-2010, 07:11 PM:

I had a Belden VGA cable and it was bad. The cable itself was pretty thin (for my convenience, I guess) and the picture had a lot of ghosting. I went and bought a generic VGA cable which was fat and cheap. Works like a dream.

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 03-01-2010, 07:56 PM:

Hey Gordon,

With the 9452, I guess you run two cables and just twist the common together?

Bernie

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-01-2010, 08:14 PM:

On a regular cell to processor I connect the red to the red on one pair and the red of the second to the green and the blacks are connected all togather
On a reverse scan it has a balanced output so the blacks are seperate which is the same as the output of the JAX light preamp

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-01-2010, 08:35 PM:

A good example of how crapy West Penn wire is was a problem I ran into just last week. On a Simplex 5 star with C. E. Reverse scanner when you moved the wires going to the pickup the sound would break up and you'd get alot of noise. I discovered this due to having to remove the lateral guide roller for cleaning. I ultimately traced the problem to the West Penn wire supplying the dc power. All appeared ok but trimming off 5 inches of that wire cured the problem. This fortunately was not my install... Had it been there would have been Belden 8451 on that line...

Mark

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 03-01-2010, 08:58 PM:

Joe, are you sure it wasn't a Belkin cable? I've never seen any pre-terminated cable assemblies from Belden.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-01-2010, 09:19 PM:

Robert, you are right, it was Belkin! Ha! I thought it was strange for this to be in the Film Handler's Forum.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-01-2010, 10:21 PM:

More strands in the wire gauge means less voltage needed at a given length

Cheap wire have less strands per gauge size most of the time..

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-02-2010, 09:39 AM:

Monte... The West Penn wire that was in there was the 8451 equivalent. It is just crap wire... somewhere in that 5 inches there is an internal short... or open. I didn't waste my time looking for it, I just clipped out the bad section... The only other acceptable wire I've used quite a bit of over the years is GEPCO. Way more broadcast studios are wired with GEPCO wire then are Belden so in my book it is every bit as good.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-02-2010, 09:08 PM:

You'll find that it depends on where the studio is...Belden is, more often than not, the Defaco reference. 1694A and 1505 are about as standard for Broadcast as they come.

As for West Penn...their equivalent to 8451 is 291. I can't say I've ever had a short in their stuff...their consistency is way off and you WILL spend more time, per connection, with West Penn than Belden. I have no problem with Belden, Gepco, Canare and Mogomi. West Penn...I'm much more selective on the "okay" cables.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-03-2010, 09:55 AM:

Only Belden here. Tried everything. Steve is right. Totally consistent; almost no probelms ever. Lasts forever.

The forgotten cable Belden 8412 for studio mike cables. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-03-2010, 10:25 AM:

Actually Louis, I think Mogami has taken over the majority of the mic cable market by now. Far more flexible, better durability, and far better specs then the ole Belden cable has.

Mark

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-03-2010, 01:28 PM:

I have always prefered Belden and always spec it whenever possible. I worked on one install where the theatre owner insisted on using this solid wire he got cheap from the electricians. Even for cell lines. It made everything 100 times harder. I did not even think it would work. Unfortunately it worked just enough that I am sure this person is still insisting on using the stuff. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 03-03-2010, 11:09 PM:

*Hides his Deca Cable* -Available at electrical supply stores [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-04-2010, 06:23 AM:

A lot of mic cables are star-quad now...often very flexible and very durable and low-noise.

Steve