Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong Motor Rebuild Issue

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Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 04-29-2010, 09:35 PM:

So I was following the instructions for the second time on rebuilding the alpha 3 motors for strong platters using a grainger lamb motor. This rebuilt motor is running slower then the 2 other motors on the platter even trying to retime it i have the older motors all the way up and the new motor all the way down and cant get them to run even close to the same speed. Would the diode have anything to do with this.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-29-2010, 09:45 PM:

Strong specifically says to bypass the diode on the new black motors if being used on the older platters. Not sure if you rebuilt the old one.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-29-2010, 10:18 PM:

There are also two other shaft spindles for that motor if you are using it on a newer platter. The best way to get things perfectly in time though is to rebuild all three motors.

Mark

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 04-29-2010, 10:18 PM:

Really. I will have to open the old ones up and look at it. I rebuilt one a month ago and did it the same way and we have not had an issue. This platter i converted to removable brains about 2 months ago if it gives you an idea how old it is. I was not using the strong motor but a grainger motor.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-30-2010, 03:48 AM:

I can see bypassing the diode since that'l allow full current to the motor instead of the half wave when using the diode..

Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 04-30-2010, 01:08 PM:

Do yourself a huge favor and rebuild all three motors. Then they will time up perfectly and on the plus side you get new bearings, armature and brushes.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-30-2010, 01:09 PM:

What Randy said!

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-30-2010, 02:04 PM:

A "new" motor can be really slow, especially if you don't run it awhile (medium speed) to seat the new brushes.

Sometimes this is enough. Sometimes not. I swap all 3 motors as stated above, throw out the bad motor, but keep the other 2 motors for rebuilding other platter systems. They always match.

What I don't do is remove the diode. Bad choice. Louis

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 04-30-2010, 07:27 PM:

This particular platter is really really old so old that the cover for the back of the motor had some rust on it. Like I said it was a fixed brain motor. I will open up the back and see if the diode has been removed from the other to. This platter is messed up as the variac has some rough points in it. I will see if i can get 2 more new motors because it would be nice to have a really reliable platter system. I also tried running the motor at half voltage for about 2 or 3 hours. Even a little bit of wd-40 in the bearing in the back. No dice.
I am going to see about getting 2 more motors.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-30-2010, 07:36 PM:

Dang, all of that rust coloring means the bearing went to crap...

(I've even shot FG on bearings to bring them back to life...great stuff..!)

-Monte

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 05-01-2010, 01:55 AM:

This was the old motor new motor runs slow. I work tomorrow. I will look and see if the diodes have been disconnected on the other 2 motors.

Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 05-02-2010, 01:18 AM:

The one thing that I forgot to mention and often gets overlooked, is the fact that the bearings on the armature are usually pretty well worn out. If the brushes are worn down and the armature looks worn, then most likely the bearings are as well. We have been buying the armatures through a company called Hesco, but it's a special order item and takes 4 weeks to get em' in. We get the brushes through Grainger and the bearings are sourced locally. I have a field rebuild kit that includes all these items as well as a drive wheel whith new bearings and tires.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-02-2010, 11:53 PM:

Y'all need to quit screwing around with a platter built with vacuum cleaner motors and get a used Christie AW3R. They can be found in some cases for less than the cost of one or two motors. [Big Grin]

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 05-03-2010, 12:09 AM:

You know I have had the chance to work on Christie aw3 platters and you know what
i asked to go back to strong platters
because the Christie platters are pitifully slow.
they have this annoying shaft that sticks up in the middle of the platter
and the rings suck.
Good platters but a few defects that bug me.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-03-2010, 02:47 AM:

Dang, I kill for AW3's.

quote: Michael Voiland

because the Christie platters are pitifully slow.
they have this annoying shaft that sticks up in the middle of the platter
and the rings suck

"Annoying shaft that sticks up in the middle?" Wonder if you met an AW2 deck with those goofy brains? For AW3 either had solid brains or the removable brains like the ALPHAS do, but are tons better built than any ALPHA brain built..and you don't get that beehive wrap while theading...but I'll stop there.

Unfortunately, that platter was way out of time and they're quite easy to retime back in, but it does take two steps in doing it correctly (if it was an AW3) But, once those two steps are accomplished, things runs like a dream and handle film so smooth.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 05-03-2010, 06:55 AM:

Well said Michael. Strong all the way.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-03-2010, 08:48 AM:

Sorry but I think you met the wrong Christie platter or you had the version with non-removable control plates. Those can be updated still to this day! The AW-3 is far and away the best American built platter and it is not slow. I can assume that when you mean slow you are talking make up. Well, most operators I know say the Strongs run too way fast on build up and especially too fast on tear down.... So fast that it can actually be dangerous. The only platter thats better than the AW-3 is the Kinoton and I don't personally appreciate the lack of film keepers on the Kinoton ...especially for the price.

Mark

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-03-2010, 12:11 PM:

Besides if you think the AW3 is slow on build-up I have a source for modified motors that have a larger drive wheel for faster make up. [Smile]

Just remember to swap the standard motor back before running your shows.

Fixed-plate AW3's still ran quite well, but yes they are a pain to move prints on.

As for the rings, you have two options: carefully re-drill a set of holes for the Strong rings (which were always a pain in the ass for me) OR contact Bevan at MIT he makes rings that will work on the AW3.

Oh,and Michael, the "defects" you mention are so petty and do not affect the reliability or performance of the platter..a properly timed AW3 will run for far longer than even the most coddled Strong platter, and it doesn't have that stupid and expensive variac to burn out. [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-03-2010, 05:56 PM:

I never felt it was all that slow. Once you get a couple of reels loaded its almost too fast! Why is everyone in such a rush anyway?

Mark

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 05-03-2010, 07:19 PM:

The platters I had a chance to work with were a pain.
I loved the brain's control over the motor and amazing decks those things were tough.
It was the shaft in the middle of the platters that stuck up 1/4 of an inch that drove me nuts. We had a stripped down Christie to build film with but I just was not a fan of some of the things.
Its like they took the best of everything and then slopped some cheap stuff in their to cut the cost.

The control cards that burn up or the power supply for the leds with zenier diodes are pointless. They get so hot they seem to cook themselves in the tree.

The build carts were amazing to work with but the plugs were awful.

Don't get me wrong the Christie is a good platter but it still has its problems just like the Strongs.

I am going to get a second new motor and swap out another motor on the top deck if they match up after that then I will get the bottom deck changed out to and will have 3 new motors in our older platter and it will be good for a few more years.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-03-2010, 10:30 PM:

Michael,
I think you had the wrong thickness bearing races in there. There are at least two different thicknesses available. The top of the deck and top of the axle should not be different by very much at all.

I've seen 25 year old LED cards that are still running just fine. In fact I've never had to replace an LED card in 32 years. Just a few motor cards too. The later style cards are fused. If someone stalls the platter they will blow the fuse or the older card...

Mark

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 05-03-2010, 10:46 PM:

Speco LP270 all the way.

Reliable- Simple- and a nice, pretty red colour.

Horizontal mut is naff though.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-04-2010, 12:42 AM:

..just them plug-in diodes in the control box on the tower can be touchy, but still LP-270's ("K-Mart" picnic tables is what they used..)is a very reliable system.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 05-04-2010, 01:14 AM:

Monte.

[thumbsup]

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 05-04-2010, 02:04 AM:

Our Strong platters have been going for a little over 20 years with all original motors except one. An operator thought it was a good idea to spray WD40 in it to quell a "mysterious" squeek. It did the job alright. Killed that motor.

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 05-04-2010, 08:20 AM:

Quelling squeaks is the norm in the booth i work in unfortunately. We have lots of different equipment from all walks of life. In all sorts of shape. Mostly in the mediocre to poor range though aka pro 35's